Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Dish PVR v. TiVo v. Antenna

Dear Friends,

I need your thought to help clarify my TV strategy.

We currently have Comcast analog cable. I can get digital cable, but not the "on-demand" feature nor any DVR through Comcast.

We watch very damn little TV anyway, especially since we got Netflix. I'm not sure that I would miss it if we collapsed to OTA network, and perhaps upped the Netflix subscription to the 5-at-a-time plan instead of the 3.

I tried using a couple of different Terk indoor antennas (including the TV-55) and got unacceptable results.

I do not, at this time, have a HDTV-ready TV. It is not "next" on the HT investment path.

I recently moved the home theatre TV to a different room where there is no cable whatsoever. We haven't really missed it...yet. We're JUST watching DVD's and listening to music in that room at the moment.

I am considering the following options:

1. Rooftop antenna. I might have to fight with the homeowners association. I would get a HDTV-compatible antenna, somewhat future-proofing the investment. Would flush the cable and consequently recoup the capital investment eventually. Where does one find an expert to do such work nowadays anyway? Because I am NOT mounting a ten-foot-long aluminum thing 25 feet in the air. My kids need me.

2. Extend the cable to the other room, either myself or by giving more money to those "people" at Comcast. Status quo. Not "satisfying".

3. Dish Network PVR system. Looks virtually free to install, would get PVR features. About the same ongoing cost and programming of our current cable setup. I'd need to extend the phone system somewhat.

4. DirecTivo. A little upfront cost. More programming. More features. Probably still have the phone system problem. This is spending MORE money on TV, not less.

If I ditch Comcast now, by the time they DO offer enhanced features, I'd be a "new customer" and might get something out of the deal.

Does anybody have the Dish Network PVR? Is it of comparable quality and usability to the DirecTivo brand?

I know there are those that evangelize TiVo. I've heard you. I just don't know if I will have time to take advantage of it, or whether it will provide good "value" for me.

Your thoughts and cousel are eagerly sought. TIA.

Tom,

I do not know much about the Dish DVR, but I can tell you a little bit about my feeling with the DirecTV DVR.

I have been a TiVo user now for almost 4 years, DirecTiVo for almost 2 of those 4.. I hardly watch any live TV anymore, and because if that fact, I watch less TV.

The two tuners in the DirecTiVo unit is a great feature, on the rare occasion that two shows that I want to see are on at the same time....I don't miss it....or for that matter, when a show that I want to watch is on when a show the kids want to watch.

I can not imagine having TV without it now. When I go to hi-def...the HDDirecTiVo will be a must.

Tom

We've had the Dish PVR for a couple of years now and absolutely love it. We apparently watch more TV then you do. So this is a godsend. The good thing about Dish PVR vs DirecTV w/Tivo is that Dish does not charge a $5 per month usage fee for the PVR (there's probably a hidden charge in there somewhere). My wife actually uses the PVR more than I (I just watch) so I'm not sure of all the features, but I believe we can watch a program that has been PVR'd while recording another. If you're really interested, let me know and I'll ask the expert when I get home later. Oh, and for HDTV I bought an odd looking set top antenna to hook into my integrated Mitsubishi. I get all the major networks except WB (only one show I watch on that anyway).

Phil

Isn't it possible to buy the lifetime subscription for the DirectTiVos like the standalones? I wouldn't pay the monthly fee, either, but $250 for a lifetime ain't bad. (As long as you've got it more than, what, 2 years, you're set). I think I only paid $200 for my standalone lifetime subscription.

Nope...DirecTiVo does not have the lifetime option.

If you get the top tiered DirecTV service/subscription, there is no fee for the DirecTiVo.

The marketing claim is they are charging you for the extra tuner in the box...not so much the service.

The standalone Tivo monthly charge is, I believe, now about $11.95-12.95. The DirecTivo monthly charge is $4.95. 3-4 years is too long in tech terms to make up the up front cost for me to feel confident about it.

Count me as another DirecTivo evangelist. Have been for 3 years. Waiting till end of month sales (Memorial Day) for sale on HD DirecTivo. Was a Netflix evangelist as well, but w/ DirecTivo, I taped all the movies I wanted and no longer needed Netflix. Tivo doesn't make you watch more TV, it makes it more efficient, no more channel flipping or commercials. I watch shows like American Idol in 4 mins, skipping all the crap (though that may include some of the singing...) Also kind of cool to stack up shows like 24 and just watch a 4 hour block at once.

Not sure what your phone comment was regarding. My DirecTivo was not near a phone line so I used one of those RCA RF Modem Jacks and it worked fine.

Varying degrees of reports on the Dish 921 PVR. Haven't used it, but if it works, I'm sure it's somewhat comparable to Tivo.

Really depends on your viewing habits. In the SF Bay Area, most Dish users are so because they get the international packages to watch Indian/Asian TV. DirecTV works fine w/ me. If you only use the TV to watch movies, then you're probably better off w/ Netflix. If you do watch TV, whether you use Comcast Digital, DirecTV, or Dish, all depends on what kind of content you want.

I guess everyone here is too much into TV to talk about that antenna on the roof idea. I'd be a bit interested in that one personnally. I just don't watch much TV. Sporting events more then anything, which means I've been stuck with cable since most of the sports are on Comcast Sportsnet here, which means only Cable has the channel. They won't let satellite providers provide it.

Other then that, I could do antenna just fine. I never really considered HD antenna. I guess HD gets broadcast over the air as well, I just never really even thought about it that way since not many people seem to get over the air broadcasts anymore. What do these antennas run and yes, I guess there is the who would install it issue as well. I assume you only get the basic 5 or so network channels this way, but I could live with that. I don't have an HDTV yet anyway, so the HD antenna would just be prep for the future.

if you stick with your cable, you can pursue a wireless connection to the other setup into the room without cable.

Give me a week and I'll give you more info, but I will say this. Today is the day I get DISH PVR installed. I'm not much of a tv watcher myself. I generally hate most network television. When you've been without tv for a long time such as myself (a year), when you do watch it you feel like you're being bombarded with commercials! Enter PVR. Now I can skip the parts I hate most about tv, the 5 minutes of commercials after 6 minutes of programming
I've been without tv for a year like I said and I've mostly survived off of music and DVDs (not to mention commentary). Am I the only one to have watched all the special features on both Lord of the Rings EE sets? One advantage. BUT...you can only do that for so long when you just need something in the background that's more...tvish. Good luck on deciding what to get. I'll post again in a week and give you my feedback on the PVR. Oh...and BTW. There IS a $4.95 a month charge for the recorder box for DISH Network.

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Am I the only one to have watched all the special features on both Lord of the Rings EE sets?

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nope.

Good point. I actually use a powered indoor HDTV antenna w/ my HD DirecTV rcvr and works fine. Just have to reposition it for some channels. If you find a good HD receiver on ebay for cheap and you are in a region w/ a lot of OTA HD channels, that's also a good option. (I've considered this for my folks.) And, I'd guess that in the next few months you'll be able to find a number of HD DirecTV rcvrs on sale at ebay, because a lot of people will be getting rid of them as they receive their HD Tivos. For OTA, you don't need DirecTV or the card, you can just run it as an OTA receiver.

Excellent thoughts, friends. Thank you kindly.

Misfit, please DO update us with your findings! I will look forward to your report.

oldskool, do you mean that a HD DirecTV box has a OTA HD Tuner in it? Would such a device output video to a non-HD TV (like S-Video or component video)? Are HD signals easier to capture than regular VHF signals? I had trouble getting a "good enough" VHF signal without a rooftop installation.

oldskool, do you mean that a HD DirecTV box has a OTA HD Tuner in it?
ANSWER: Yes.
Would such a device output video to a non-HD TV (like S-Video or component video)?
ANSWER: Yes.
Are HD signals easier to capture than regular VHF signals?
ANSWER: Absolutely, provided you have DTV signals in your area. Because it's digital, you either get it or you don't. None of the old school ghosting, just maybe a little pixelation, but once you get the signal you're done. Bear in mind that this applies to the digital signal not analog. In my area (SF Bay Area), some of the local stations like KQED (PBS), have up to 5 digital versions of the channel, showing different content. Very nice.

I had trouble getting a "good enough" VHF signal without a rooftop installation.
ANSWER: I used 2 VERY good antennas. The Zenith Silver Sensor is a GREAT passive, UHF antenna, helps a little w/ VHF too. I have one available, if anyone's interested, PM me. Now I use this radio shack one w/ great results for both VHF and UHF.

Ratshack

Go here to see your local HDTV coverage
Antenna Web

oldskool,

Correct me if I am wrong, the HD DirecTiVo box has two OTA tuners AND two SAT tuners....right?

curtis
Correct. 2 SAT's like the existing DirecTivo boxes. There's 2 OTA tuners internally w/ 1 external coax connection. Unfortunately, the box can only record 2 shows at once (any combination I believe), it can't record off of all 4. That would be cool, but I can't imagine any nites, except thurs, that have more than 2 shows I want to tape.

BTW, seems that the latest DirecTV satellite was successfully launched, to carry mostly local channels. That should free up existing satellites for more HD channels. WOO HOO!!

HD DirecTivo FAQ

Hmmmm. Sooo, do you think the HD DirecTivo would continue to function as an OTA tuner if I discontinued the service?

Yes, I believe so. I don't think you'd be getting the guide data properly though...

Just looking at options. We'd love to save $60/mo by cancelling DirecTV after out 1-yr contract is up. Weaning ourselves from programming choices might be painful, but having a free digital OTA picture would be great.

I'm assuming these different antenna colors on the HD link don't matter much and that HD antennas receive all of those signals listed?

It sounds like if I had an HD TV with antenna I could get the channels that showed up in the link for free. That would be fine with me, except for the loss of Comcast Sportsnet, but that alone isn't worth the forty something a month for Cable tv.

Just to point out, you don't have an HD DirectTiVo. Those are retailing around $1000

if i'm not mistaken, the colors are important. i think they indicate the size of the antenna required. don't forget, while the signal is free, the antenna and set top box you need are not.
dan

[no comment]

I would think you'd want the largest size antenna, to get all the channels you can. Anyone looked into pricing on the antenna + set top box? At least that is a one time investment, instead of all that money to the cable co every month.

sopranos are on hbo, and heaven forbid the bride can't get to watch HGTV.
dan

not to mention Six Feet Under. When does the new season start???

few weeks maybe?

Wow, a possibility of time-shifting to see the Shopping Channel in HD. The mere thought makes me light-headed.

Oh, please Ray, you're not really going to blame that for your light-headedness, are you?

I want to thank everybody for participating in this thread. Your wisdom and guidance are greatly appreciated. I have a short update.

Apparently, getting analog signals off-the-air is not a viable option for me. After my experimentation with a couple of indoor antennas, I (finally) found somebody who knew what he was talking about relative to rooftop antennas and signal quality in my specific area. He said if I didn't get anything remotely watchable using the indoor antennas, that putting one on the roof was not going to make "the difference". He did suggest that I go ahead and flush the cable company, listen to the radio more and just use my imagination. Thanks, you've been helpful.

I am about 30 miles from the analog and digital transmitters.

I consulted EBay and found that used satellite boxes with OTA HD tuners do seem readily available for ~$150. Given that I cannot verify the quality of the digital signal without the box, AND that I would still need some kind of antenna AND that I don't have a HD-compatible TV, this seems like a poor option for me at this time.

Digital cable IS available in my area, and apparently, the Comcast "On-Demand" feature is embedded in the digital cable at no extra charge. The problem with this approach is that the monthly cost is slightly MORE than the DirecTivo solution and the "On-Demand" feature does not cover all program offerings, only those that Comcast deems worthy.

So, I'm back to three options:
1. Keep the analog cable, run cable myself to the new location.
2. Get DirecTivo for at least ~$100 out of pocket and an increase of about $10/month for Tivo functionality.
3. Get Dish PVR for basically $0 out of pocket and about the same monthly as we are paying now. But there is just something about the Dish technology that makes me squirmy.

Either one of the satellite options would require me to either buy a phone-jack extender thingy (~$50-60?) or run additional phone line myself.

Between ISP, DSL, cell phones, land lines, Netflix and TV, we are spending an obscene amount of money each month on Information Utilities. I've tried every way I can think of to bundle, bifurcate and change the equations, but I can't seem to find any meaningful cost savings. And God knows there's no going back now.

Thanks again.

If you need to be able to work from home, you can ask your employer to pick up your DSL bill. It worked for me.

(Technically speaking, I'm on call 24x7, so I need to be able to get online to fix things at a moments notice. But in reality, I'm never called.)

Does your cable company offer internet services? Sometimes they can bundle that with digital cable to reduce costs. Then you can dump the DSL line.

Yeah - I've got Comcast digital here in D.C., with HBO and the PVR (Like generic TiVo) service, bundled with a cable connection for the internet. I save about $10 a month. But my cable/internet bill is $140!!!! I won't live without either, though, and monopolies are a b!tch, huh?

Yes, I could get Comcast cable broadband, but it would only save me about $4/mo over my current setup (Qwerst DSL and dslnorthwest ISP). For that small level of savings, I prefer to diversify my patronage.

Bumping my own thread because I need more focused advice. Help, again, please.

I ran phone and Cat5 to the living room. I'm ready to pull the trigger on DirecTivo.

Does anybody have experience or hearsay about either American Satellite or Rapid Satellite? They seem a bit cheaper than ordering directly from DirecTV.

I want to see Directv in three rooms - Living Room (main), Master Bedroom, and kids play room (both upstairs, and connected to the current Comcast analog cable).

Now, the confusing part. I want to be able to access Tivo features in both the Living Room and the never-to-be-networked-because-I-can't-run-cable-there master bedroom.

Options:
1. Get two DirecTivo boxes. This seems like the logical choice, because then I'd get more hourly capacity and it does not cost more monthly. But, even if I get a triple-LNB dish, are there technical constraints?
2. Somehow get output from the main Tivo to the bedroom. Heaven help me.

I don't do HDTV at all yet. The only other place where there is Cat5 is in the family room (a place where we will not be watching TV). I don't want to run more cable myself if I can help it. I just want "the guy" to do the "virtually free installation" and be done with it. Except for that swearing part when I'm trying to program the remote, again.

This thread has degenerated into me talking to myself. In public. Great.

Update: DirecTivo installed yesterday - two Tivo boxes, one regular DTV receiver. Bliss.

Sweet. So you can record 4 shows at one time? Geez...

My guess is you'll never, or at most rarely, use the regular receiver. After Tivo, live TV is difficult to watch.

Congrats!

2 tivos? Wow, i'm jealous. Though I'm waiting for my order on my HD Tivo. I'm 3rd on the Magnolia wait list...

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This thread has degenerated into me talking to myself. In public. Great.

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LOL! Just console yourself by telling yourself you're talking to the only intelligent person in the place.

No, Jack, you're wrong. The reason why I hang out here is that the people ARE smart, kind and funny. Which beats the crap out of stupid, mean and humorless. But let's not talk about my family

I'd have to do some serious Season Ticket management to record four things at once, but yes, it is technically possible. I hadn't even thought of that until Ken brought it up. The "regular" box is in the room where the kids' computer and the treadmill (and all sorts of other flotsam and jetsam) reside. It won't get heavy use.

I'm afraid (literally) that I might have to buy a second MX-700 (or something) for the bedroom now. The Tivo remote won't control the sleep timer on the TV, and well, there's the stereo and the DVD player to consider...

Every time I try to get out, the pull me back in!

I got a fair deal and a good install by (finally) finding a local company to deal with. I like the digital audio channels on Directv. The salesboy at Comcast was not sufficiently smart or gracious when I called to cancel. It harshed my mellow.

Thanks for chiming in, guys. I feel better now

Please let us know how the DirecTV thing goes for you. I'm trying to talk my wife into not dropping $40/month for basic cable any more, but it's an uphill battle. Plus, I don't want to get into the same damn trap again. It's the same thing with DSL... Grr...

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No, Jack, you're wrong. The reason why I hang out here is that the people ARE smart, kind and funny. Which beats the crap out of stupid, mean and humorless. But let's not talk about my family

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LOL! I meant that since you were only one here, you could console yourself by saying you were talking to the only intelligent one in the the place. Once I show up, that of course changes.

Have you got that MX-700 up and running yet? I absolutely love mine. I've had to humble myself at Ray's feet for encouraging me to get this puppy (a disgusting proposition even when he has his shoes ON)