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Re: Bryston's placeholders for new speakers
Hambrabi #446812 12/04/22 04:31 PM
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Anything a company publishes that helps market and sell its products and services.


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Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
Re: Bryston's placeholders for new speakers
Kodiak #446830 12/05/22 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Kodiak
Also, more in line with this thread, I hate the Bryston website. The place markers are strange. They don’t really work. It’s a weird way to display your lineup. Not a fan of the website at all.

I had a closer look at their site as a lurker. As a Gen X'er rather than the baby boomer target audience (the half-deaf ones retiring en masse), I'm just not a candidate for old school audiophilia. I'll let the fantasy of owning racks of equipment, loudspeakers that play over 110 dB, and stereo listening die off with that generation.

My gripes of the site (with unsolicited commentary):
- No MSRP pricing (because dealers would gripe about not being able to dictate price?)
- Too much use of renderings (because they don't have enough margins to hire a photographer?)
- Indecipherable model names (because who doesn't love studying their product catalog for the sake of coding, the sending of signals that you're "in the know", in hopes of receiving an acknowledgment that you possess advantage?)
- For a company with a reputation for engineering, why counter it with questionable products such as power conditioners? (or for that matter, 4-figure DAC's, headphone amps, and phono pre-amps)
- testimonials from dealers (I can't make this stuff up)

I personally think the future is full bandwidth wireless multichannel, but I don't think they have the technical experience to pull it off unless there's some sort of wireless system-on-a-chip that's commercially available for integration.


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Re: Bryston's placeholders for new speakers
Hambrabi #446831 12/05/22 06:19 PM
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I'm not attempting to defend but just consider an alternate viewpoint:

No MSRP pricing (because dealers would gripe about not being able to dictate price?)

No MSRP because they want inquiries to generate leads.

- Too much use of renderings (because they don't have enough margins to hire a photographer?)

Maybe they want to spend the money elsewhere. Maybe they don't have the time to arrange photos. Maybe they haven't built the goods yet.

- Indecipherable model names (because who doesn't love studying their product catalog for the sake of coding, the sending of signals that you're "in the know", in hopes of receiving an acknowledgment that you possess advantage?)

Indecipherable names because engineers are running the show.

- For a company with a reputation for engineering, why counter it with questionable products such as power conditioners? (or for that matter, 4-figure DAC's, headphone amps, and phono pre-amps)

I know very well there is a market for this stuff.

- testimonials from dealers (I can't make this stuff up)

I wish I had testimonials from my "dealers". They do nothing but complain so they can get price concessions.


House of the Rising Sone
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Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
Re: Bryston's placeholders for new speakers
Hambrabi #446832 12/05/22 06:28 PM
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The market for racks and SPL exists and is full of profit:

"I have a 9.1.6 Config with 3 A1500's. Watch movies 97% of the time. Amplifiers really provide explosive/dynamic sonic pressure at a movie's crescendo ... where music intensity and sound from special effects combine together for a noticeable visual effect (VFX). You can really feel additional sonic pressure kicking in through the wides and heights in movies like John Wick 3.

I have 8 M80s for base speakers ... along with VP180 and VP150 for center speakers. My heights are six M5s. My crossovers are set at 50Hz for M80/VP180 and 60Hz for M5s. Very happy with the A1500 amplifiers. Axiom has truly exceptional support/service with the A1500!

-JJ"


House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
Re: Bryston's placeholders for new speakers
Hambrabi #447529 10/04/23 04:41 AM
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Looks like Bryston recently added the T10 models to their line-up. They seem to be available as either passive or active models.

And those listening window and sound power curves look...amazing. +/- 1.0 dB through most of the amplitude response curves. I have yet to see a loudspeaker on EAC or ASR with better theoretical measurements. Add a sub and you've found your end game loudspeaker. Bring a back brace if you want to move it.


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Re: Bryston's placeholders for new speakers
Hambrabi #447533 10/05/23 04:58 AM
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Where did you find the SP and LW curves for the T10?

I only see two models with SP and LW curves.


House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
Re: Bryston's placeholders for new speakers
Hambrabi #447534 10/05/23 05:54 PM
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This is the document with measurements:

http://support.bryston.com/downloads/Loudspeakers/Bryston_Speaker_Technical_T10_Manual.pdf

It’s a work in progress with placeholders and various spelling mistakes, so model-specific graphs are coming if they continue their documentation tradition. It’s surprisingly free of audio BS, though it seems like a stretch to call a speaker stack a line array. I’m glad bipolar subwoofers are coming back, and hope Axiom gets them too.

I assume only the active models will have such tight tolerances. The NRCC research says that if your loudspeaker has a listening window and sound power/directivity index curve that is straight and predictable (free from spikes, dips, and changes in direction), it will win double blind listening tests. We seem to like neutral speakers with no resonances or colorations (and I consider the wrong bass level to be a coloration).

Bryston should be able to please neurotic/disagreeable spreadsheet jockeys/armchair quarterbacks that hang on every word that EAC and ASR say, while at the same time also pleasing the connoisseurs/enthusiasts/gatekeepers who buy audio by the pound and decor sense by the carat.

For the rest of us, it doesn’t matter. The marginal utility gained from trading in an Axiom V.4 loudspeaker will probably be minimal and would be better served with multiple subwoofers or finding trustworthy music curators.

Last edited by Hambrabi; 10/05/23 06:05 PM. Reason: A carat > a gram in this context

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Re: Bryston's placeholders for new speakers
Hambrabi #447535 10/05/23 08:40 PM
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The curves in the T10 document you referenced are for the Model T active; not the T10.

I'll say it again. The Model T active LW curve is horizontal. The LFR1100 active is downward sloping at 3dB/decade. Why is that?

My theory is Bryston customers believe a horizontal LW is superior. Maybe because their room walls are covered with mattresses. In a typical room, the Model T actives would sound bright while the LFR1100 Actives sound right.


House of the Rising Sone
Out in the mid or far field
Dedicated mid-woofers are over-rated
Re: Bryston's placeholders for new speakers
Mojo #447536 10/05/23 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Mojo
The curves in the T10 document you referenced are for the Model T active; not the T10.

I'll say it again. The Model T active LW curve is horizontal. The LFR1100 active is downward sloping at 3dB/decade. Why is that?

My theory is Bryston customers believe a horizontal LW is superior. Maybe because their room walls are covered with mattresses. In a typical room, the Model T actives would sound bright while the LFR1100 Actives sound right.

My theory is Bryston aimed at older people with money; this audience is typically losing the higher frequencies, so a little boost couldn't hurt.

I couldn't find the curves for the Model T Active. The brochure didn't have it. If anyone has a link I'd appreciate if you posted it.

Re: Bryston's placeholders for new speakers
Mojo #447537 10/05/23 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Mojo
The curves in the T10 document you referenced are for the Model T active; not the T10.

I'll say it again. The Model T active LW curve is horizontal. The LFR1100 active is downward sloping at 3dB/decade. Why is that?

Page 3 has the Model T curves, but page 11 has a curve that I'm assuming is one of the T10's. It would be nice if they labeled it. Looking closer, it seems like it could be +/- 0.75 dB from 60 Hz to 15,000 Hz. LW and SP are a single composite curves from dozens to hundreds of measurements, so that's some serious engineering or software wizardry.

The LFR 1100 Active listening window slopes because it has to, in order for an omnidirectional speaker to sound good.

https://youtu.be/sL-W3qn4-WU?list=LL&t=1111
(time cued)

A bipolar or line array design might have different listening window slopes from a point source design. I haven't seen anyone talk about it. In the end, the listening tests determine which measurements matter.


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