Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Need sub-$700 receiver with good DAC & Phono

I am about to buy a pair of m22ti's because I really don't enjoy listening to music through my Apple Pro Speakers/Eyeballs (sidenote: "watts up" = worst pun ever). I do, however, enjoy using iTunes to navigate my otherwise rather unwieldy music collection, so I'm looking to get an Airport Express so I can stream my digital music files -- which I compress using the Apple Lossless codec or, at worst, 192 kbps AAC -- to my stereo wirelessly. The really rad thing about the Airport Express is that the audio-out mini-jack apparently somehow doubles as an optical Toslink, which brings me to my point:

I need a receiver for under $700 -– new, refurb, b-stock, doesn’t matter -- with a good DAC. Since my music collection is currently all digital and I plan to use this system almost exclusively for music (I will plug my TV into it, but I don’t watch much TV and I don't plan to do surround sound for quite a long time), it seems like the quality of the DAC is probably the most important factor to consider.

However, I do plan to buy a turntable and start buying some music on vinyl in the very near future, so it would be nice if the receiver I get has a good phono input, too.

I’ve been looking at some Denons and wonder whether the difference in the DACs between the 180x/280x and the 380x series justifies the additional cost. I've also looked at some offerings from H/K, Marantz, NAD, and so forth, but I am very interested in any other recommendations, too.

check the Onkyo 801.. it has phono, high DAC rate, and has the 'netcard' feature that can be linked directly to your computer..

look up its specs on the onkyo website and see if it has what you need.. you can find it online for around $600-$700 bucks. good luck.

bigjohn

Try the Yamaha RX-V1400 - It's got good (192khz/24 bit) DACs in it and a phono input jack.

It retails for $799 - but you'll never pay that online.

Or you could look for a Denon 985 which is the equivalent to the 2805 but is a little cheaper as it's for sale at less boutique like stores. It is however the exact same receiver as the 2805 and comes with the setup mike. I've seen it on E-Bay for less than $600 US.

Josh, first welcome, and Go Blue! Next, don't worry about DACs; as Alan and others have pointed out they've developed to the point of overall excellence and are available to manufacturers for about $1 each in OEM quantities.

The receivers that Adrien and Lorenzo have suggested would be excellent choices in your price range. The Denon 985 is identical(except it comes only in silver)to the 2805 at a lower price. The Yamaha 5790 is essentially the same as the 1400, again at a lower price.

Thanks, everyone, for your help. After some more research, I have almost decided to get a refurbished Denon 1804 since it does everything I need and can be had for around $300, leaving more money for music.

However, I'm still a bit unsure on the DAC issue. I've read here and elsewhere that all DACs are effectively created equal, but it doesn't seem like that would apply across different classes of DACs. For example, the Denon 1804 has a 24 bit/96 khz DAC, whereas the 3805 and several of the Onkyo models I looked at have 24 bit/192 kHz DACs. I am aware that CD (and even HDCD) audio is well below the quality of these DACs, but will there be any real quality difference between these two classes of DACs with other audio sources I may use in the future (vinyl, SACD, DVD-Audio)?

Also, the Apple Airport Express isn't shipping till mid-July and I'm itching to get this system, so I'm considering getting the Xitel Pro Hi-Fi Link instead. It will require me to run wire from my computer to my receiver, but I'm going to have to do that anyway to get a video signal to my TV from my iMac. Plus, it's cheaper and it comes with a ridiculous amount of wire. The reviews I've found seem quite good, but have any of you had any experience with this product? Is there any reason to believe the optical wire included could somehow be of a lower quality (whatever that means) than wire I would purchase elsewhere?

Oops, I forgot to enter the URL in the above link to the Xitel Pro Hi-Fi Link.

Hi Josh - welcome. Glad to have your presence here, and I'm very interested in your project.

I can't really help you with the DAC question. Sorry.

However, I can enthusiastically attest to the feature set and build quality of the Denon 1804. I am very well pleased by mine. Likewise Axiom speakers - no regrets whatsoever.

Thanks for the link on the Xitel thing. Keep us posted!

Hiya Josh. Welcome to Axiomville. You might check ecost, authorized Denon etailer. They have the 2803 for $425 and the 3803 for $550 (est). Both are steals at those prices. I moved from an 1803 to a 3803. No real reason other than I wanted the 3803. If you want to save a few $$$, the 1804 should be fine.

I don't know if you'll be able to take advantage of any superior DACs using that Apple box. The audio comes only from 2.5 mm headphone jack. I can't imange that you'll get REALLY clean audio from that, though you can probably use adapter cables to an analog RCA input on the receiver.

Another option would be to use a USB enabled receiver. I have a pioneer elite 45TX that has a USB port. I've hooked up my laptop to that port and Windows recoginizes the receiver. I run Jukebox or WM player on the laptop and the sound comes thru the USB into the reciever. Pretty slick. The 45TX is now replaced by the 53TX, I gotta imagine you can get that for under $700 online. Or try DocDVD on the avsforum. He can get one as an authorized dealer at a great price. Authorized means your warranty is in tact.

Actually, I believe that the jack is a combo digital/analog jack, so it's not quite a 2.5" headphone jack. If the contact is made, it shouldn't make a difference, esp with digital. (Yeah, I said it. Deal.)

I couldn't hear a difference between the Denon 480x and 280x when I was demo-ing receivers. Don't worry about it. Save some money to impress one of those hot little coeds with a dinner and show or something (maybe a trip to out to the Rose Bowl? Oops! forgot about OSU ).

Josh, as I've commented a couple of times here, I use the Xitel(stereo)Hi Fi link in a two-channel setup to feed the digital output from the computer's USB output port to the stereo inputs on my receiver. Typically, whenever I'm at the computer I use this to listen to streaming classical stations from all over the world. I didn't need the more expensive Pro version, but I'd think that it's exactly what you need(and again, the DACs are no problem).

Ray3 -
Thanks for the suggestion! When I was searching old posts on these boards, I found out about ecost.com and I really like it. I've discovered that they have refurbished Denon 884s (same as the 1804) for just $260, so my plan is to go with that and save an extra $20. Every little bit helps when you've got tuition to pay

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oldskoolboarder -
As I pointed out above, I'm going to be using the Xitel Pro Hi-Fi Link to connect my iMac to my stereo. It is a USB Audio device that circumvents the soundcard and has both analog and digital outputs. Using the included optical cable, I should be getting an exact digital copy of the CD audio information into the digital input of the Denon 884. The Hi-Fi Link also supports Dolby Digital and DTS Surround Sound, which is where advanced DACs would be potentially advantageous.

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kcarlie -
The jack on the Airport Express is a combo digital/analog jack (which I don't quite understand), you are correct. However, I have definitely decided to go with the Xitel -- which has a traditional optical out port -- instead.

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BigWill -
Thanks for sharing your experience with the Denons. I'm almost completely set on the 1804/884 now.

What sort of source were you using when you auditioned them, though? I only ask because it seems to me -- and I might be wrong; I'm no expert -- that the higher quality DACs would only make a difference with very high-quality audio formats (DVD, DVD-Audio, SACD, vinyl).

I should also note that I've been fortunate enough to find a hot little coed who will be more impressed by my stereo than by any food I might buy her, although we have similar taste in shows of both the film and concert variety. Sometimes, though, I worry that she's just dating me because of the size of my... record collection.

And I went to the Rose Bowl last year. What a bummer. I'm hoping Gutierrez will help bring us out of the Navarre slump.

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JohnK -
I'm glad to hear from someone with experience with Xitel products. It's reassuring.

How do you like internet radio? I find that most of the stations stream at bitrates far too low to be pleasant to listen to, but lately I've been seeing some 128 kbps mp3 streams, which isn't bad at all, considering. In fact, the student radio station I DJ at here in Ann Arbor -- WCBN 88.3 FM -- has just such a stream. I don't play much classical, but if you're ever awake and bored on a Thursday night / Friday morning between 3:00 and 6:00 AM EST, you should listen to my show. You'd probably be the only person doing so

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Well, everyone, I think I'm about ready to start placing my orders. I'll be sure to take pictures and let you all know how it turns out.

Oh this young man is gonna fit in around here just fine. Because of the size of his....record collection, I'll even overlook the fact that he's from "that school up North." That's right young fella! I'm an OSU alumnus. TA DA!

And JohnK, because you're a Browns fan, I'll overlook the fact that you said "Go ----" earlier in this thread which caused my monitor to fog up, and gave me a serious case of the vapors. How anyone can be a Browns fan, AND a fan of "that school up North" is beyond me!

P.S. Josh, thank you for the tip on the Xitel Pro Hi-Fi Link. Mine arrives tomorrow. (If it's any consolation, I was born in Royal Oak, and I'm a former disc jockey; radio not parties. )

jack-

if you were to mention 'OSU' around these parts, everyone would think you were talking about oklahoma state univ in stillwater.. its all BIG 12 down here.. i know there are some big rivalry games 'up north', but you dont know rivalry til you go to a UT-vs-Tex A&M game.. its not just a game, its an experience.

can ya tell i am jonesing for football season??

bigjohn

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can ya tell i am jonesing for football season??

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Me too. Pro training camps start in a month or so!

If we were on the west coast, they'd think I was talking about Oregon State. It's all very confusing.

I don't doubt the UT/ Tex A&M rivalry is a fierce one. But, trust me, it could well match, but could never top, the OSU/"that school up North" rivalry. Right Josh & John? It thought the big rivalry down there was Oklahoma/Texas. Has that cooled down?

Apologies for the hijacked thread Josh, but it's your fault for attending that school. Besides, you've already decided to get the Axioms. Right?

Okay, Jack and Josh. First, Josh, the "Go Blue", as you may have suspected is because I'm a U.of M. graduate(law school), am a nut about football(coached 5 years in high school as a volunteer), and don't share Woody's feelings(who allegedly once pushed his stalled car out of Michigan and into Ohio to get gas). Also, of course, Go Browns!

Next, Josh, good decision; that 884 is an excellent buy. Since you're at the station now maybe you can get them to replace those "Annoy" studio speakers with Axioms. Yes, the sound quality of the streaming stations is mediocre at best, but the music is the bottom line, and using this site , easily the best I've ever found, I can enjoy classical music from all over the world.

jack-

oklahoma/texas is still very big. its the 'red river shootout' as we like to call it around here.. its just that, them okies have kicked the longhorns tails the last 4-5 years. if WE would have been winning those games, then it would be bigger.. just find an okie, and ask him how big that game is in oklahoma. HUGE.. its no prob though.. ever wonder why the wind always blows in texas?? cause oklahoma sucks!!

the ut/a&m is just huge cause its the 2 biggest texas schools. i would tell anyone that has a fever for college football to go see a UT-vs-A&M game in college station. it is possibly the craziest, most hectic 4 hours you will ever have. its like a drug!!

bigjohn

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see a UT-vs-A&M game in college station. it is possibly the craziest, most hectic 4 hours you will ever have. its like a drug!!

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Sounds like my kinda game. Fun stuff.

Hey John. Just saw on the news that west Texas is trying to break the 40 days and 40 nights record for rain. Are you under water, or floatin' down the Concho?

we have been lucky enough(or unlucky depending on your vantage point), to miss most of the heavy stuff. we are having more rain than usual, but just not the crazy heavy stuff like in houston and dallas. we are sitting at about 2 inches above normal for this month, but it looks to be drying up by the end of this week.

i saw on the news where houston was 17 inches above normal for the month.. i have seen years when we barely got 17 inches of rain for the whole year, much less in one month.

thanks for the concern, but i havent had to blow up the river tubes yet!!

bigjohn

We here in Austin are currently over 12 inches above normal for the rain we usually get during this time of the year. It is worse in San Antonio...

All this excess ends up in the Gulf muddying up the waters for saltwater flyfishermen...

We are reported to have a "relatively" dry Fourth of July in a few days...

All I know is that I have not had to water my yard...Green and vigorous...

WhatFurrer

You guys keep your feet dry, now!

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P.S. Josh, thank you for the tip on the Xitel Pro Hi-Fi Link. Mine arrives tomorrow.

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Be sure to let us know what you think of your new Pro Hi-Fi Link after it arrives!

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(If it's any consolation, I was born in Royal Oak, and I'm a former disc jockey; radio not parties. )

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Small consolation at best; now I know you're a traitor.

And I don't know what sort of radio station you worked at, but my show is like a party every week. And everyone's invited!

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Small consolation at best; now I know you're a traitor.

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Hey! I didn't have nothin' to do with it. I was only 5 years old. They didn't give me any choice! I didn't even know where Ohio was.

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And I don't know what sort of radio station you worked at, but my show is like a party every week. And everyone's invited!

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I'm too old to be up at that hour. When I was your age, I was just getting going at 3 AM. I was a disc jockey at what was called progressive rock radio stations. We picked all our own music, and played everything from classical to jazz to pop to rock to folk to country to bluegrass and back again. because we picked our own music, we were expected to be familiar with all of it. That meant that the record companies gave each disc jockey their own personal copy of virtually every record that came out. They wanted us to be familiar with their albums so we'd play them on the air, so people would hear them, so people would buy them, so they'd make lots of money. I am now saddled with over 3000 record albums. Pain in the buttinski!

I'll let you know about the Xitel.

hey jack-

let me know if you ever get the hankerin to get rid of some vinyl.. i am always lookin to expand my collection. looks like you may a few gems in your collection from what you mentioned.

bigjohn

Ditto...

Being an ex-DJ myself, I have a few but not as many as you describe.

If you decide to "clean house", let us know.

WhatFurrer

Josh, the demo-ing I did was in store with their jazz CD and the first MIB movie. For what it's worth the entry-level Sony ES receiver sounded the same to me, as well.

Why does it seem that all Michigan quarterbacks are hated by their own fans? I seem to recall Elvis Grbac and Brian Griese both being unpopular - but they were obviously top-notch players. Could it be the conservative, defensive-minded coaching that makes them look bad? Passing only on third down, playing not to lose, too few receivers to throw to, etc... Same could be said for the schools down south and in Texas, until recently. Hard for a guy to look like Joe Montana under those conditions.

Go Bruins!