Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Epic 80 or Epic 60 system???

Hi all,
Which of the speaker system I go with Epic 80 or Epic 60???

I need some advice for this, I'm about to purchase the Epic 80 system, that included Tower speakers M80ti, Surrounds QS8, Centers VP150,
and Subwoofer EP350.

My room is 14' w * 34' D * 8' H.

I had a Yamaha RX-V2200 Receiver 6.1 Channel Formats
This is the audio specifications.
MAIN, 20Hz-20kHz, 0.04% THD, 8 100W +100W
CENTER, 20Hz-20kHz, 0.04% THD, 8 100W
REAR, 20Hz-20kHz, 0.04% THD, 8 100W + 100W
Dynamic Power per Channel
MAIN, 8/6/4/2 130/160/200/245W

my rx-v2200 can run at 8 ohms = 130W
6 ohms = 160W
4 ohms = 200W.

1st question, is this Epic 80 speaker system too big for my room in the basement???
2nd is the RX-V2200 6.1 receiver will be able to handle this 4 ohms load???

Personally I really like to listen music have deep tight bass.

For Epic 60 system I'm really don't it, because of the look, very small speaker.

Also for saving 15% off Should I go to Factor outlet and buy it.

Thank You in advance

Alright lets see here....

I say for a space that big, get the components from the Epic 80 but get an SVS sub...

M80ti's: $1100
QS8s: $470
VP150: $350
(EP350: $620)

SVS 20-39PCi $599 (or the 20-39PC+. drool...)

You'll get the 5% discount on the Axiom purchase because you're still ordering 5 pieces, but the SVS is 320 watts, the EP350 is 200 watts...

i had the same choice you currently have, i chose the epic 60,because the towers are not as finicky.. the 80's are very "picky" if you will, you have to place them, "just right" to get the sound you are looking for, and that was not an option in my case, so i went for the more forgiving 60's.. same frequency response, same numbers, just not "quite" as loud... but they are plenty loud... i have a marantz mm9000 5 channel HT amp, pushing about 170 watt's to each of the speakers, and they sound wonderful... if you get the epic 60, get the vp150 center channel, you will be happy you did…. or get another m60, and use that as a center, thats what im going to do, eventually...

good luck with your decision.

Wid, I know that it's been your experience that there has been no problem positioning your M80s. But the opinion that positioning them to get a good soundstage, rather than being put forth by those who don't own them, was stated by Alan Lofft, Axioms resident expert who does own them, and others who also own them. Those of us who don't own them merely echo their statements. I firmly believe that you've had no problems positioning the 80s. But others have. I don't believe stating that they can be difficult to postion is perpetrating a falsehood.

Ajax,This very well might be true and I certainly don't doubt your word,but how many times have you also heard(read)the M60's are the same as the M80's they just don't play as loud.Well they very well can't be the same and differant too.If the 80's are more difficult to place what would be the big differance between the two?I have not read that any other person here has had great difficutly in placement with these speakers,but yet people that have not owned a set seems to be the ones who chime in the most about how hard they are to place.

i posted what i did because that's what the axiom representative told me, directly point blank.... so they handle a little bit more power, and go a little bit deeper... i was wrong on those points, I just going by what axiom employees told me...

Wid, I totally agree. Most people who make these comments don't own the speakers.

" I don't own the speakers but I hear the M80's are harder to position, but there are a few owners who have had no problems with placement" would be more like it.

I mean no ill will to buy quoting you,if I offended you I am sorry.I was just stating what I find to be so.When I order my M80's nothing was said about these issues.I talked to Joe at Axiom when I put in my order and he had said nothing about such issues.It was my suprise to find so many people saying they are so hard to place.I find this not to be so.Again I meant no ill will to you.

Lac, welcome!

I have a set of M80's being driven by a Yamaha 6.1 HTR-5660 in a room that measures 20' x 16'.

First, my room is smaller than yours and I have no complaints. Out of the box, the 80's sound great. I will conceed that after extended placement tweaks, the soundstage is definitely better. You could argue all day about them being "fussy" to place, BUT it all depends on YOUR room.

Second, your Yamaha is more powerfull than mine. I have driven it hard for extended periods with no adverse effects. (It only gets slightly warm, and has never shut down). You should have no problem driving the 4 ohm load. BTW - My surrounds are 4 ohm as well.

Third, Axiom makes a good sub for the money. You should be very happy. The problem is that for about the same money, you can get a GREAT sub.

My vote is for the Epic 80 - you won't regret it, and you won't ever wonder "what if".

Shawn

I had the 80's and in my room, the term nightmare comes to mind as far as placement went. I could have lived with just fussy! Every person who I have met face to face that has owned these speakers have all reported the same problem. I sold my 80's to my brother in-law many weeks ago and I kid you not, he is still playing with the location of these speakers. This is not a bad thing towards the speaker, just something that one should consider when buying. If we could all have this speaker 4 feet from the back wall I doubt this topic would come up near as much.

Neverhappy,What type of problems did you have as far as placement goes with the 80s?I have mine 18 inches from the back wall and 3 feet from the side walls.The baffle is about 6 inches farther out than the entertainment center. They are toed in just slightly.I sit about 13 feet back at the listening position.They sound great in this position.I'm not trying to be a smarta$$ here I would really like to know.

Well I just had a bit of a chat with Joe at Axiom about this subject.What he said is the M80s are no more difficult to place than the M60's.He said he has put together about 200 sets for differant people and only about 4 gave him any trouble. So if what he said is so(I have no reason to doubt him)it is a fallacy to state otherwise,and he agree's.When told that others have said when buying their speakers that a rep from Axiom had said the 80s were a hard speaker to place and the 60s are much more foregiving it seemed to take him by supprise and he said that is just not so.I also asked if they sound the same and he said at lower levels they are close but with slight differances but when you really push them the 80s simply are a better speaker.When asked why Alan says he had trouble with them Joe told me Alan has a set in a very small room,the problem is not the speaker but the room.

Main problem was the wife factor. I had them moved out from the wall to varying degrees and the further I went out the better they sounded and the more pissed my wife got! A lot of it had to do with that but on the other side of the coin, my Studio 100's sat in the same spot from day one and never needed a ton of room behind them.

wid, so I'm full of it is what you and Joe are saying? Funny how Allen has even posted in these forums that the 80's and 60's can be subject to how they are placed but yet I guess we are all just wanna be audio geeks who don't know what it is we hear. I have no desire to get into some form of debate over this but you and Joe are dead wrong on this one. For Joe to come out and say that anybody who states that the 80's or 60's are hard to place, goes against many posts by a ton of Axiom customers in these forums.

Does Joe understand by making a statement of that nature he is telling a lot of people who own these speakers that they don't know crap? So I guess room acoustics are no problem with the 80's and 60's? I can just drop a set anywhere and they should sound great just like that................please gimme a break. It's the easy way out to just blame the room and and not the speaker.

I do have mine out away and away from the side walls.I'm lucky the wife is pretty foregiving as far as my audio stuff is concerned.So are you saying the nightmere you speak of was not the speaker alone.You see my point is when people read the bad things about the M80's there is usually more to it than just placement and people are afraid to give them a try when in fact they are a great sounding speaker.Like your first post,take that by itself and you would think its solely the fault of the speaker.I have not seen or read about any speaker that you can just simply plop down and they sound their best.No matter what speaker you buy you have to set them up in the proper position,and thats my point.

Neverappy,I am NOT saying that at all, as you read above there is no speaker that the room does not affect.All I am saying is one is no more difficult than the other.

wid, I hear ya. I got a little hyper there for a moment. I have been very vocal on the 80's. I have said good things and to be honest I have said some bad. I had problems with placing these. Some had to do with the wife, some with the room and some with the speaker itself. I just don't think it's fair for the folks at Axiom to say that any statements about placement are a fallacy. That is just plain wrong. There are without a doubt 2 things these speakers to me are guilty of. The first is the brightness or in your face of the 80's and they can be moody with placement. It drives me nuts when I see people post that the 80's are not bright but yet you can get parts direct from Axiom to tone down the tweeter.

Anyway, sorry again if I came across a little strong there but the comments you made about what Joe said got me going......I'm going to leave his comments on the 80's are a better speaker then the 60's alone to as this will get me going all over again as from what I can tell on paper, there is not a big enough difference to justify that statement.! lol

Its all good.I myself like the detailed sound of the 80'(I geuss thats obvious).I know not all people will enjoy these speakers as I do.I see you have gone for the M50's and I'm sure they sound great.Thats the thing about speakers not everyone hears them in the same way.You see its not that you can't have difficulty placing them its that one is no easier than the other.Thats what I said the fallacy was.

wid, if what was told to you, is true, which im sure it is. that kind of pisses me off, cause i could have gone with the 80's...that is what i was originally going to go with.... oh well.. i have an 8" sub in addition to my 12, so i have no lack in mid bass at all..

Dakkon,I'm sure the system,epic 60,you have is a truley GREAT sounding system.I also would think the 60's alone are not lacking in the bass, mid bass region.The only reason I continued to post in this thread was to put to rest that the 80's are a more difficult speaker to place than the 60's.I was never saying that either cannot be hard given the right(wrong)room.Like I said earlier ANY speaker can give one problems if not positioned correctly.This was not a slam on the 60's at all,I sure they sound fantastic.

Thank you all of the Great advice and very experiencing helpful. Now I can Based on your advice I had made the decision to go with the Epic 80 system,


Again Thank you for all you input the great stuff.

Lac

Finally I got Epic 80 system derived, after going though the setup, I did tested out!!! the system its great!!!

But for some recent that EP350 doesn't give me the base I'm looking for.
I really like listen to any music with have tight and deep bass.


My question is:
a. buy another EP350. to make up 2 subs
b. return the EP350 an buy the 2 of the SVS PB1 box sub.
http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_boxes.htm

Please help, I'm open to all suggestions.

Thank you in advance!!!!

Lac

Lac, before you start thinking about more or different subs you should experiment with the 350. The best location for a sub is generally in a corner behind one of the mains. Your speakers should all be set "small" with the receiver set for a 80Hz crossover. The sub level should be calibrated, by ear, or preferably by meter.

Hi Johnk, Here are my setup with Epic 80:
location for a sub in a corner about 3ft by 3ft away from the wall. I set the Qs8s and the center speakers all "small". on my ep350 sub, I set the volume about mid way and the frequency was up all the way.

and I'm also tried to move the sub farther from the corner. but i didn't find it chaning too much.

My Rx-v2200 Yamaha rec. I don't know where to set frequency for the crossover.

Thanks for your great help!!!
Lac

lac,

Have you performed what is called the "subwoofer crawl"?

i.e. Position the sub in the listening position, put on a source that has good bass on it (Menu from the movie "Lost In Space", etc) preferably repeating, and then get on your hands and knees and literally crawl around the perimeter of the room listening to the bass. The location you hear the most bass is the best location for your subwoofer...

Now this position is not always the most ideal, so listen for the second best, etc...Put the sub in one of these locations, re-calibrate and you should be able to attain more of what you are looking for.

Ideally, like JohnK said...in a corner behind one of your mains is usually the best location but the above procedure will help derive that location.

It really DOES work.

Hope this helps.

Good Luck,

WhatFurrer

It sounds like you need to set your levels and what Johnk said.

I agree. I'll bet he needs to set the channel levels on his receiver.

Lac, three further comments: your 2200 has a fixed 90Hz crossover(good enough)so there's nothing that you can set there; even the M80s should be set "small" to allow the sub to handle what it does best and take some of the load off the mains; you might try moving the sub even nearer, not farther, into the corner(just so it's not actually touching the walls), since the strongest bass reinforcement from the room occurs when the sub driver cone is just a few inches from the floor and walls.

Thank you to all, gave me good advices.
I did move the Sub around, but still not help. Finally, from my Reciever 2200 I made changed all my speakers setting into "small" and moved the Sub into the corner wall, but it's not touching the wall.

I found it big improvement to the bass, stronger deep bass.

same question, should I buy another identical EP350 sub???
may be this is a crazy question, but I'm thinking that if I have another sub and I'll be place in the back of my room, do i get bigger bass. Or I waited my monney.

Thanks again for great help.

Greetings,
FWIW, I had similar feelings about the EP350. I used the product recommendation link on HSU's website and Dr. Hsu advised that I use an STF-3. While there is nothing "wrong" with the Axiom sub, Hsu just does it better in the bass department. Your results may vary...
b.

Hello all,

Today, I want to write this messages to who don't have the Axiom speakers system.

I bought the Epic 80 home theater speaker set. Its very easy to setup. But after all I'm very happy with the system I had. I don't know that word out there to say or tell how good enough about Axiom company who has done good job. They made Excellent speakers for fair amount of money. This is the first time that I've heard the good music from Axiom speakers system. My messages To every one out there who are looking for speakers, this is the place for you to spend some time and think about Axiom speakers.

I'm not working for Axiom, but I feel bad if I don't tell other peoples about how good Axiom speakers.

I've heard Bose 701 801 and 901's speaker sets, but none of these I've mention would compare near Axiom.

In my own words I can give Axiom over 110%. again, very people have there own taste, for me I like listen to music that have clear and strong tight bass. Again I'm very happy that I got these Axiom speakers. I don't think that I need to buy any other brand name speaker again.

Thank you for other people so friendly great help and good advice.

Thank you very one on these board.

Lac

Glad to hear that and enjoy .

I'm so glad you're pleased with your system,lac. It was nice of you to post your sincere compliments. I'm sure the folks at Axiom are grateful and proud.

What receiver/amp are you driving your system with LAC? I've decided on getting the Epic 60 or 80 setup soon but still pondering a receiver. Looking at the Elite 54tx or Denon 2805, or maybe the Yammy 1400(5790). I know the 80's are 4 ohm and Alan likes Denon or HK or NAD for them?

Thanks, Randy

I am currently demoing at home the yamaha 5790 with 60's the 150 and 2 qs8 and an old sub and 2 polk monitor in the back It sounds terrific. I will also be trying the the elite 54 and 56. I heard the 55 and the Denon 3805 I preferred the Elite. Much cleaner sounding but both had great DSP on the dvd's. (This was at the HIfi store with a 5.1 M&K setup)

Hi sirquack,
I had a 6.1 Yamaha RX-V 2200 100W per channel. It can handle 4ohms load just fine.

I phone Yamaha techs and they told me My receiver is more than enough to handle 4 ohms.
I hope this will answer your question.
Also the new Yamaha 2400 for you to check it out.

Thanks
Lac