Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Received my AXIOM HT 5.1 system

Received my AXIOM system (M60, EP350, VP150, QS8) 5 days ago. Since then, I have been enjoying the sounds of the system (movies and music) immensely with the exception of the subwoofer EP350. If I can rate these speakers, all my speakers are 9.8/10 except for the subwoofer which I will rate as 6/10. I have tweaked my system (receiver Denon 1804, and the EP350...max. frequency and about 3 o'clock on the SW vol). I get the bass all right, but not a deep, solid bass that I am expecting. My old Bose Accoustimas 5, in my opinion gives a much better bass. I went through the Axiom website and read the articles about improving the subwoofer sound. I also have called AXIOM tech support a couple of times, and their abvice only helped marginally.

I wish to put this question to the other owners of EP350 "how do you feel about your SW EP350?" Are you satisfied? happy? Thanks for any feedback.

Rogel (Calgary, Canada)

If you're really disappointed with it - I recommend returning it for an HSu or an SVS. The reviewer at ecoustics.com shares your opinion that the Axiom sub didn't have the house rattling bass of the other subwoofers tested at lower prices.

I have the 350, and couldn't be more pleased. I think my wife would rather me unplug it since it can be heard upstairs...

I'm not sure what a lot of the debate over different subs for HT systems is all about. To me, I've tried several and they all are adequate in my mind -- especially for movies. Subs are much more of a factor for me in my car, where I need the right "punch and foundation together for good rock CDs. To me, in cars, they have to be extremely well thought out. But in a large room...I think you just find a spot and a directional point that works for the room. I must not appreciate the sub effects in HT like others on the boards. I'm now putting mine into a semi-enclosure and just port it from there to see if it even matters to me, since it takes up floor space now, and I rather get the space back.

What exactly are you disappointed with... are they mushy, not heart pumping enough... Is it more apparent with music or with movies? Maybe you should try the other ones recommended on the board and see if it makes a diffence for you. Maybe send the 350 back and go back to the Bsoe if it fits your listening needs better? I guess first, exhaust all the positions and directionals for the room you're in.

One more thing, perhaps configure your M60s to accept more of the base load, and rely more on the low end foundations for the sub.

Rogel, good to see that you're enjoying your new speakers. Something simply has to be wrong with the sub setup; I can assure you that the Bose Bass Module(they correctly don't term it a subwoofer)isn't close to the performance of the 350 or many other true subs in the same category. It's a woofer designed to cover the 50-200Hz area which the tiny Bose cubes don't handle. I wonder if possibly you've become used to an unnaturally elevated response in that upper-bass area, which the M60 is now handling more accurately(assuming that you have the M60s set small and a 80Hz crossover on your 1804, with the 350 crossover turned all the way up to get it out of the way). Experiment.

Rogel, another thought, which might sound strange, but it's happened a couple of times: make sure that the woofers in the M60s are actually connected; the connecting straps on the terminals have to be tight.

Greetings,
I had similar issues with an EP350. However, before you pass final judgement, make sure you have correctly calibrated it within your system and have done a "subwoofer crawl". That being said, I wound up with an Hsu STF-3. Axiom specializes in speakers and Hsu specializes in subwoofers. Your results may vary...
b.

Hi rdm,

I'm delighted you like the Axiom M60, QS8s and VP150, and, like JohnK, I'm positive you have something amiss in your setup, or that you got used to the elevated 50 Hz - 200 Hz output from the crummy Bose "bass module" (Bose is so good at making up slick marketing terms to impress and confuse consumers. . .). The EP350 should certainly be doing vastly better than a Bose.

You mentioned you have the SW volume at 3 o'clock? It should be much lower. I don't think you have enough voltage output on the Denon Sub out to drive the 35O to proper levels. Go into the Denon Bass management (or whatever Denon calls it) and increase the output level for the Sub output until you can set the EP350 so that you get plenty of extended bass with the SW volume control at about the 11:00 a.m. setting. Preset it there, and increase the Denon sub out level. That should do it.

Regards,

You mention

Ditto what John and Alan said, there must be something awry with your receiver settings.

I have a Denon receiver and an EP350. The EP350 will shake the house pretty good.

To access the onscreen display of your receiver you must have the "monitor out" jack connected to your TV. Push the "system set up" button at the bottom right on your remote, under the plastic flipper thing. Select "setting channel levels". To set the sub level you have to run the test tones for all of the speakers. When it gets to the sub, turn the thing all the way up and then adjust the subs output by hand at the back of the EP350.
Good Luck.

Alan,
Here is the setting of my Denon AVR 1804 (90Wx6), which I believe is the optimum at present:
- M60's set to "small"; VP150 & QS8's also "small"
- Test tone (signal management system?): has a range from
-12 to +12.
*LR set at +1
*C set at +1
*Surround LR set at +1
*SW set at +12 (max)
- The Subwoofer back panel: Frequency set at max; and Vol knob set at 11 o'clock.
The above settings improved the bass output a little bit, but still not a clean nor strong as I want it to be. I am looking for a "chest thumping" bass. This is the reason why I ordered the top of the lime EP350.

Is there anymore I can do? I am willing to try anything. And, thanks for everyone's advice. This forum is a great place to learn new things.

Rogel (Calgary, Canada)

Hello RDM,

Hope you are well. I am thinking about this, and am wondering if you have dynamic compression enabled. Dynamic compression is an option in some DVD players, and some AV receivers that is used for night time operation, so you don't disturb your neighbors, it reduces the bass and the musical peaks while preserving the midrange clarity so you can still understand dialogue. I am not familiar with the Denon receiver but you may want to check into this.

Later,

TonyM

Hi Big Will,
Thanks for your advice. My Denon is AVR 1804, with 90watts x 6 channels. This unit does not have a display connected to the TV; but I have the onscreen display on the receiver itself.

What is the model of your Denon? Please show me your setting. My setting is shown in "my reply to Alan Loffts" comment above. Thanks

Rogel (Calgary, Canada)

Hi JohnK,

Can you please explain further "make sure the woofers in the M60's are actually connected..." I do not understand your point. How can I check the straps? or more precisely, where are these straps?; that if I open the grill of the M60's, there is no strap!
Appreciate your response!

Thanks,
Rogel

The M60s have 2 pairs of binding posts each (where you hook up the cable). Those posts are connected when you're not biwiring or biamping by a small gold strap. Make sure that those are tight.

I have a 2802. It only has the onscreen menu as far as I know. What you have seems to be a definite improvement.

Regarding the lack of bass - I'm at a loss. Maybe look into what Tony M suggested.
Maybe pull the sub out from the corner so that you can actually see the readings on the knobs and ensure that you have the dials where you want them.
Is the light green on the back of the EP350 when you're listening to music?
Make sure the EP350 is plugged in?
While running 2 channel stereo, use your speaker selector switch (A/B) to turn off the M60s and see exactly what sort of volume the sub is producing.

Rogel, Ken's reply covered the point, and this is unlikely to be the problem, but on one occasion M60s were being used without the mids and tweeters connected and on another without the woofers connected. The speaker posts in back both have to be tightly connected with the little metal straps between them, even if only one set of the posts is being used. For example, if your wires were connected to the top posts and the straps to the bottom posts weren't tight, then the woofers(which the bottom posts connect to)wouldn't operate and the problem with the bass might be the M60s rather than the EP350.

Tony,

I checked my Denon manual and I do not have the "dynamic compression" option. I play the DVD during daytime (noon time included) and same situation (very poor bass output).

I am beginning to conclude that the EP350 is not suited for my HT room size which is 14'W x 20'L x 20'H(vaulted ceiling) plus adjoining a kitchen area of another 14'W x 20'L x 8'H).

I am beginning to think of exercising my option to return this sub (still have 20 days to go) and seriously look at purchasing an SV25-31PCPlus (525 watts powered sub. Any comments/advice from anyone?

Rogel

Hello RDM,

Hope you are well. Well that rules that out. Try this little experiment.

Turn all your speaker channels down as far as they will go and leave the sub channel at +6db.

Now put in a CD with some good bass that you like.

Turn up the volume of your system until the Sub starts to produce acceptable bass to your ear.

After you are getting acceptable bass, balance your other speaker channels to an acceptable level.

The reason I suggest this is that it sounds like your mains are very sensitive and are playing loud at a low volume level, therefore not enough signal is getting to the subwoofer at the low volume level. Calibrating the sub first should balance your sytem out.

Later,

TonyM

Something is definetley amiss here

I have a Denon receiver and my levels are as follows:

FL: +2.0
C: +0.5
FR: +2.0
SL: -1.5
SR: -1.5
SW: 0db (for movies) +3.5 (for 5ch stereo).

and my sub is at 11 o'clock or 12 o'clock, give or take.

I wish I could come out and help you, but calgary is a little far from me

- D

Hi All!
Thanks for all the advices in "tweaking" my EP350 sub. These helped a little, but not to a point that make me happy!

As the saying goes..."there's no point in flogging a dead-horse". Therefore, I ordered and just now received an SV25-31PCPlus subwoofer. The moment I turned it on (after hooking it up), the bass is what I want. tweaked it a little more for about 15 minutes, and now I think I can say that i am very happy. The bass sound is so powerful that I have to turn down the settings (wrt to the bass signal). This puppy is a 525 watts powered sub, which is on par with the soon to be released Axiom EP500 or EP600. Cost wise (factoring in the US$ plus shipping, etc cost) it is worth the cost. So, the EP350 is going back to Dwight (sorry Amie...I did not know about the EP500 model when I ordered my system.)
Anyway, I am very happy now with my 5.1 HT system: M60Ti, VP150, QS8, and SV25-31PC Plus.

Cheers,
Rogel (Calgary, Canada)

P.S. For those in this part of the "True North" who are willing to audition my system, pls let me know. I'll be more than glad to show.

Rogel,

Congratulations on your setup. I had a weak sub problem before upgrading to the Earthquake SuperNova MKV15. I had an AudioSource sub and it was just “boomy” and nothing else.
I've been drooling at the SVS stuff for a while now, I don't think I need it but it sure looks tempting.

Tom

Hello RDM,

Hope you are well. That is a great sub, enjoy it!

Later,

TonyM