Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Various questions on M40/M50, DC area

Hi all, I'm considering buying a pair of Axioms for my new apartment and had a few questions.

1. How does the M50 compare with the M40 on the one hand and the M60 on the other? I've gotten slightly variant information.

2. What would be minimum listening distances be for all these speakers?

3. I was thinking about placing the speakers like so (O = chair, X = speakers):

Is that a reasonable thing to do?

4. How much does return shipping from the US usually cost? (I'm in the DC area.)

5. Is there anyone in the DC area who'd be willing to let me listen to their Axioms (any model)?

Thanks!

David

You might try searching the Auditioning Axioms in Your Area thread to see if there is a DC owner. I think you should be able to find someone.

Any particular reason on the placement you've chosen like furniture or windows? I sit about 10+ feet back from my speakers, which are spaced about 6-8 ft apart and that works fine for me. I believe there is some guideline that I saw that you should sit back 1.5 times the distance between your l/r speakers. The further you sit back the wider the speakers should be set in order to get proper stereo imaging. Not sure if I got that ratio right though, so you might want to do a search or wait until someone chimes in on the topic.

Can't comment about the 40/50/60 question as I own M22's. Is this just strictly for stereo listening or are you contemplating HT? Any plans for a sub? It can be useful even for stereo in order to get full range sound, although the need for one is highly dependent on your listening preferences (types of music, volume, etc.).

Good luck. I am sure someone will post soon about the floorstanding speakers.

Strictly for stereo. Mostly classical (orchestral, chamber, choral) music.

About the arrangement, it was like that because of the furniture, but yesterday I changed my mind and the speakers are going to go against the long wall. So it looks like my listening distance is down to about 7 feet. How much space do I need behind the speakers?

Thanks!

For classical music I think the M60s would be perfect. If you can get some space behind them (a foot or two) that would be great, but not a deal breaker.

I don't always recommend Axioms without reservations, but in your case I think you'll love them. For classical music I really haven't heard anything better at any price.

Good luck.

I own the M60/VP100/QS8 package. I'm in DuPont Circle, and woudl be willing to entertain an audition.

shoot me a PM

Adrien

From what I've read in other posts from owners of the floorstanding speakers, 7 ft might be kind of close.

Regarding distance from the wall in back of the speakers, I think you just need 6 inches or so. I have mine out from the wall about 2 feet (so that I can bring the fronts even with my TV screen) and toed in so that they form a gentle arc.

There is an article here that I found from a Google search. Can't vouch for the validity of all of the recommendations being made, but after a quick scan of the article the spacing recommendation seems reasonable and in line with my earlier post of sitting back 1.5 times the distance between the speakers, but I think you can get away with a little less. Any more than 1.5x and you might not get a proper stereo image. Keep in mind that I didn't read the whole article so I'm not sure what else you may find in there.

I have a pair of M3ti bookshelves, which are reported to have a similar sound to the M40/M50 - they just don't go as deep. They have a more relaxed sound than the M22/60/80 speakers. As I mentioned, I have the 22's and I find the difference somewhat noticable between the two. Where the M22 (and reportedly the M60) has a very detailed sound, the M3 is somewhat softer to my ears.

If you haven't done so already, do a search on the boards and you will find a number of posts where people have described their impressions of each of the speakers you are interested in, with the possible exception of the M40's which doesn't get a lot of mention.

I think I can get it up to 10' from my ear to the wall...if the speakers only need 6" behind, and they're about a foot deep, that leaves 8.5'.

I suppose I could go back to the diagonal arrangement, but I think I now like the straight arrangement better.

If I had unlimited cash, I would surely be considering the M60s.

I also liked the NHT SB-3s, also a little pricy.

This is what Alan has to say about the two different sounds to the Axiom family of speakers.
"All Axiom speakers now use identical tweeters, a 1-inch titanium dome
with a 1-inch voice coil.

But in 2-way speakers like the M3ti and M22ti, the woofer also carries
a good portion of the midrange content. The M22ti and M2i use a
different woofer (the 5.25-inch, two of them), whereas the M3ti has a 6.5-inch
woofer as well as a different crossover frequency. So the crossover is
different, and the 6.5-inch woofer rolls off faster (it doesn't have as
much midrange output as the 5.25-inch drivers in the M22ti and M2i).

Subjectively, it's the slight depression in output in the 500 Hz to
2kHz region that makes the M3ti sound a little more recessed and
laid-back. That's why the other 2-way Axioms (M40 and M50) have the same
"family" tonal balance. Likewise the M2, M22, M60 and M80 have very similar
clarity and detail because they use identical 5.25-inch midrange drivers."

Hope this helps.

I am working with a very similar room to you. I had the m22s originally but ordered the m60s becuase I didn't like the stands. I am very curious as to opinions on
a) whether 6 inches is enough of a gap with the wall for the m60s - in our siutation thats pretty much all there is to spare - (the m60s are 15 inches deep)
b) is there any logic which says you need to sit further back from a pair of m60s as compared to m22s? (Your seating postion will actually be 8 inches closer to the front of the m60s becuase of their greater depth )

Whatever the opinions, I am very happy with the sound of the m60s - they do have a slightly fuller sound than the m22s. They are big speakers so you will probably feel a bit crowded initially - however I am cannot decide whether that is just a visual or acoustic thing. ( I think the former)

I was tempted to get the m50s becuase they were a bit smaller and cheaper. I suspect I would have liked them fine. However given that you say you like classical music most people here are going to recommend you get the m60s or the m22s, ditto the axiom guy on the phone when you order...so....I figured don't want to get the 50s and always wonder :-)

dwchiang, pmulvey,

I have M60s about 7 ft. apart, I sit about 8 ft from each one of them, and their rear ports are 8 to 10 inches out from curtains that hang behind each one. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Alan has stated that you can get away with as little as 3 inches of space between the rear ports and the wall. I would think a little more space would be better, but if you can get at least that much, you should be OK. This holds true for all the ported speakers.

I'm sorry I misinterpreted what you had written.

M22s w/ sub or M50s, IMO.

No, there was no misunderstanding, I wasn't all that specific in my post about what I was/wasn't considering. It does seem like the M60s would be the best, I just can't justify the expense. I don't think I'd go for a bookshelf+sub; it seems to hard to match them seamlessly. So yes, the M50s seem like they might be about right.

There's a very interesting thread/review here comparing the M40s, M50s, and M80s (which are said to be similar to the M60s, except by M80 owners ). This is what helped me to make my decision to go for the M50s.

I think you would be surprised at how well the M22's integrate with a good subwoofer. That said, for the money you would spend on M22's, stands, & a sub you should probably go with the M50's, as long as the bass extension of a sub is not critical to you.

Also, have you checked out the factory outlet? The pair I received didn't seem to have any real visible defect.

Good luck with the decision!

I originally purchased the m22s, but, I had an itch which I needed to scratch. I always wondered if the m50s would have been a better choice. So, I ordered the m50s and listened to them side by side with the 22s for about 3 weeks. Initially, the differences were minor, but after a few days, the soundstage and clarity of the m22s overwhelmed the 50s. Luckily, Amie allowed me to return them. I had trouble believing that there could be much difference between the laid back sound of the m3, m40, m50s vs the clarity of the m2, m22, m60, m80 line up, but there is. Both the m22s and the m50s are nice speakers, but the laid back quality of the m50s wasn't what I was looking for.

just to get in on this thread

I live a mile north of Dupont Circle in DC and have M3s waiting for me when I return from vacation tommorrow. I am thinking about m22s.

Thanks everyone for the posts

I'm curious, that post is very informative but he put the M50s third out of three. What about it pushed you towards the M50s? Thanks!

Whoops... wrong review! I just had that one saved. Must have been when I was leaning towards the M40s. Nevermind...

So, what finally did push you towards the M50s? Did you ever get to compare them with M40s or M60s?

NeverHappy compared them favorably to the M80s and M60s (?). Also, my wife liked them better than the other speakers in the lineup, so, there you are. After I got them, I compared them to the M22s that pmbuko has. There's a difference in the sound, but we were hard pressed to say which speaker was better. You can find the review if you search for M50 vs. M22.

The M40s I discounted because, well, I didn't want a speaker with 2 drivers.

From perusing the various reviews of the M50, I seem to get two contrary stories:

1. The M50 has quite a bit more clarity than the M40 (Alan Lofft says this a few times).

2. The M50 has less clarity than the M40s (mhw described them as having "muffled" vocals, expressing dissatisfaction with that term).

It seems like the M40 relative to the M3 adds more bass but loses a little midrange clarity; it would seem that some people are saying that the M50 has less of the latter problem, and some are saying that it has it more.

Is there any consensus?...other than that the M60 beats them both, I've read that plenty of times.

The M50s have great vocals, imho. My only issue with them vs the M22s was that the M22s had a wider soundstage. But the M50s were also not optimally placed. I think I still need to tweak them some more, but overall, they're great. I've never heard the 40s or the 60s so I can't really speak to those. A lot of it does depend on placement and room dynamics, though.