Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners M80's vs M60's (or even M22ti) -Unique Questions!

Ahhh!

Thanks to everyone's posts, I am at a much clearer level of confusion now!

Seriously though, thanks for all the comments.

Lots to read and digest.

I feel like, now, whatever decision I make, I will at least make an informed decision.

It sounds like, at least for me, the M22's are out of the running, at least in the living room. (But, I have been reasonably happy with my bookshelf B&W 202's with speaker stands, for over ten years . . .)

The M60's would be a perfect high end match for my receiver (and almost any other receiver). Buy it, install them, and start enjoying the music. If you are still woried about ultra low end, get a sub woofer (or Jenifer Lopez . . . bad joke!)

The M80's might work, and they might need another amp source. Luckily, the Pioneer 1014 has the THX certification, and as JohnK points out, the THX certification requires the amp to drive a 3.6 ohm load.

And, as Alan and others have noted, that past, real world experience shows, that H/K Denon and NAD can drive the M80's, other brands have not had good past experience.

So, if I choose the M80's, at least I am making an informed choice, and I realise that I might need to call in Scotty. (As in Scotty, I NEED MORE POWER!!!)

So it sounds like, intelectually, the best decision would be the M60's.

BUT MENTALLY, I will always be wondering, what if I choose the M80's instead . . .

It is funny actually that I have this delema, because, in the past, I have heard some FANTASTIC sounding, two way speakers.

I have been trying to post this for about a day, and I keep on flip flopping in my mind (No Kerry jokes!).

M60 is better for my system, as it is right now, M80's might bring a whole other dimention into my listening, but I will (I MEAN MAY) have to get a seperate amp if the Pioneer is not up to snuff, and even if it is, a seperate amp would be better for the whole system.

I still do not have a clear understanding about the M80's at LOW listening levels. How do they sound at low or "still hear the phone ring" levels?

Now to address some specifics . . .
BigWill
I am the kind of guy that will go to Wal-mart, K-mart, Sams, and Target, then check the internet, before making a 50 dollar purchase. BUT, When I realized that I use my speakers ALMOST EVERY DAY, year in, and year out, 300 bucks more IS a worthwile investment to me, considering that my last set of speakers cost 400 bucks, and lasted me over ten years, and I used them ALMOST every day.

Spiffnme
Thanks for the alternate opinion as to "M60's starting to strain" comment that BigWill made. Nice Amps that you recommended. Remember when all amps were two channel!

tomtuttle . . .
"I deeply resent the insinuation that the beautiful vinyl on my M60's was not hand rubbed by virgin nymphs at midnight."
Well, maybe not at the factory, but who knows what happens at your place . . . (grin!)
Yea, I am leaning towards the M80's. I just picture the boxes getting delivered, and setting up these "mini buildings" in my Living room, and then starting to think, My Gawd, people could live in there! But, then again, they are within a couple of inches to the M60's so no big deal.

Bray,
Yes, we talked on Audioholics or AVS. You recommended listening. I got a feeling I am going to like whatever I decide. My options are either another internet direct company (and I can't hear them either!) or a B&M company, where I will get much less for my hard earned dollar.

Alan,
Thanks for the detailed reply. About the Pioneer 1014 and the 4 ohm load. I will make an educated purchase, should I pick the M80's, and if the Pioneer does not hold up (even with the THX cert), I knew that going in, and will not blame the speakers, I will have to get another amp. I think a high end stereo amp is on my mind anyway, so that I get the clarity and crispness that I want (not to blast the neighbors, but for the accuracy!)

Sound thinking.

Sounds like what you need is a pair of M80ti's and that Odyssey Stratos amp. You'll never leave your living room again.

Bigwill, I think it's safe to say you'r the only guy I've ever seen that could wear that hat, while holding a little baby and still look mean and scary. Wow.

Yeah, he scares the crap out of me. Good thing I'm far away...

Go for the M80's you won't be sorry.I vote for the Rotel amp though,if need be.

Budd relax; a "high-end stereo amp" has no more "accuracy" than what you have now. Its frequency response is audibly flat and its noise and distortion are inaudible. You can't do any better than that unless a 4 ohm load gives problems or in the unlikely situation that more power is needed.

>>It sounds like, at least for me, the M22's are out of the running, at least in the living room. (But, I have been reasonably happy with my bookshelf B&W 202's with speaker stands, for over ten years . . .)

Hmmm. We don't want to push you too high in the speaker lineup either. As far as I know the M22s are not out of line with other good bookshelf speakers in terms of sensitivity, power handling and resulting SPL -- just that most people end up wanting to play a bit louder than bookshelf speakers can normally deliver in that sized room. Are the 202s already in your great room, or are you using them in a smaller room today ?

My M2s sound great in a 13x23 room as long as I stick with moderate sound levels, but I can't turn the volume up as high as I would like "sometimes". M60s on the other hand will play quite a bit more loudly than I would ever want, ie I have lots of headroom at normal listening volumes.

If you always listen at "normal" volumes (it happens -- family, neighbors, ears that haven't been killed by years of loud music) then M22s might be OK and M60s would definitely be OK... unless you are planning to change your listening habits as a result of the new speakers.

If you are happy with the 202s from an SPL point of view and are open to adding a sub in the future (if you play DVDs then you're gonna want a sub anyways) then I'm not sure M80s are worth the extra cost and effort. People sure do like 'em, though

Just for the record, I didn't say that the M60s "start to strain", but that at super high volumes, when listening to music, they can get a little "hard" sounding. Crystal clear - no distortion at all, but "hard".?

I'm aware that I can be scary looking. That's why I've worked so hard at developing my warm and congenial personality.

Well, I guess I can chime in here.

We recently purchased the M60ti's (as well as the VP150 and the QS8's). These are connected to a Crown XLS 402a pro power amp being fed from a HK 7200 (boy does this unit generate some heat!!!).

FWIW, I get insane readings (with HK at -10 and crown cranked full open, nominal 90 with peaks of ~102) of SPL in our 7200 cubic foot area (60x8x15) from the listening position which is 12 feet from the M60's. I also have a SVS 20-39 PCi for the sub-woofer duties. The speakers are set to full range on the H/K with the sub doing L/R bass management. This is with no surround processing...two channel stereo.

My wife complains about the loudness level...that's at least when I can hear her complain. Other times she just gives me "the look", and if you're married you know what I'm talking about.

My honest opinion:

At first I thought the m60's sounded shrill. The "S" sound would be more sibilant than what I was used to (JBL Studio series). So I waited and let my ears and the M60's "break in".

Suffice it to say they sound much better to me now. It took about 3 months but I am very happy and am also pumping out 260 WPC into them from the Crown.

I do have a question though...anyone think I should push the H/K to 0 db reading on the dial? Should I try and crack the glass on the 75 gallon fish tank or on the panny plasma?