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VP100 vs. VP150 vs. M22 vs. QS4 vs. M3 vs...
#64647 10/16/04 02:26 AM
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axiomite
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I'm currently running "4.1" (M60s + cheap tower surrounds with receiver set to "none" on the center channel so it splits the center content between L and R mains). Did have M2s as surrounds but took 'em upstairs for a stereo system. The "center channel" is pretty clear but just seems a bit dull without a real speaker there, and I'm starting to get a bit tired of having to sit right in the middle. I'm pretty sure I need a center channel, trouble is that I just have too many options. :

1. Buy a VP100 or VP150, live happily ever after (note that I may be moving to a much larger room in the spring, or I would just buy a VP100 and never look back). $220 / $350 US.

2. Buy QS4s or QS8s (QS8s probably too much $$ for now), move the cheap towers upstairs, wire the M2i's in parallel as a center. $370/$470 US -- gets me better surrounds but crappy speakers upstairs. Don't think this will fly.

3. Buy M3s to replace the M2s upstairs, use M2s as center. Interesting... 2xM2s might be better than VP100 but probably not as good as VP150. $275 US.

4. Buy a single M22 as a center. Better LF response than VP100/VP150 so I can cross over lower (but normally not much LF content in center anyways), also lets me play M2 vs. M22 comparison games albeit only in mono. $200 US.

The other worry is that I am using an older CRT TV so it is probably about as sensitive to magnetic fields as you're going to get. I imagine the VPxxx have more shielding than the M2/M22s.

VP150 is a bit more than what I want to spend right now but it really does seem like the right thing to do... maybe will go through factory outlet and play "find the defect".

Any suggestions ? There is a wealth of good information on here (and I have read every single stinkin' post), just kinda tired and looking for someone to help me make the decision

I'm only about 70% sure that I will end up in a bigger room but if I do it seems likely that I will wish I had gone with VP150. It seems like every VP100 owner is really happy unless they are in a real big room. Anyone comparing VP100 with VP150 in a normal size room doesn't seem to see much difference -- but for a real big room the VP150 does seem to be noticeably better.


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: VP100 vs. VP150 vs. M22 vs. QS4 vs. M3 vs...
#64648 10/16/04 03:07 AM
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Personally, I'd go with the QS4s or 8s... While I have not heard them, I have been told that they are just simply phenomenal in drawing you into the movie!


Re: VP100 vs. VP150 vs. M22 vs. QS4 vs. M3 vs...
#64649 10/16/04 03:49 AM
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John, the first suggestion would be to bring one or both of the M2s back down and experiment with it as a center. Soundwise it should work very well; the M22 caused no interference with a CRT when I experimented briefly when I first got it. Try it and see; it is shielded and may cause no problem, especially if you turn it upside-down.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: VP100 vs. VP150 vs. M22 vs. QS4 vs. M3 vs...
#64650 10/16/04 10:50 AM
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John, I would experiment as JohnK suggested. Bring a SINGLE M2 back down for a movie or two. If you are happy with the results, a single M2 can be had for $127.50. A cheap alternative for the interim.

If your room situation changes down the road, purchase another M2 and move the pair to the back. That 630 is 7.1, so it's not like you will be stuck. You could even just use the single M2 in a 6.1 config.

Shawn


Shawn

Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125
I think I'm developing an addiction.
Re: VP100 vs. VP150 vs. M22 vs. QS4 vs. M3 vs...
#64651 10/16/04 02:39 PM
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axiomite
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Ahh, that's what I needed to hear... I can do some useful testing with the speakers I already have. I knew I was missing something just not sure what

Thanks for the help, everyone !!


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: VP100 vs. VP150 vs. M22 vs. QS4 vs. M3 vs...
#64652 10/16/04 06:10 PM
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axiomite
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OK, that worked well. Having a good center does make a real difference. The dialog is MUCH more clear now and the sound seems much more "solid" across the front, don't know the right words.

I had to put the M2i upside-down on the TV otherwise the woofer magnet messed up the picture really badly. With the woofer at the bottom and a blue screen (no video) putting the M2 on top caused a green splotch about a foot wide and six inches high at the top. With the M2 on its side the green patch was smaller, perhaps 4-6" high but still far too much interference.

I played with the channel settings a bit and found that it sounded quite a bit better with the center raised about 2dB relative to the M60 mains. Interesting that this is also the difference in sensitivity between VP100 and VP150, draw your own conclusions

Here's a picture of the current setup. I'm going to try finding a new location for the CD player (just under the TV now) and put the center channel there on its side -- but the current setup does sound really good now, with no hint of dialog being "up" from the image.




M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: VP100 vs. VP150 vs. M22 vs. QS4 vs. M3 vs...
#64653 10/16/04 07:02 PM
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Crap. I was wondering about that with a direct view TV. I guess a pair of M3s is out. How about a pair of VP100s on their sides?


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: VP100 vs. VP150 vs. M22 vs. QS4 vs. M3 vs...
#64654 10/16/04 08:16 PM
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axiomite
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I haven't tried positioning the M2s BESIDE the TV, just on top of it. I imagine that a pair of M2s or M3s flanking the TV would be fine... it's just that in my case the screen is small (27") and I have to sit fairly close, so the mains aren't all that far apart in the first place and I'm not sure having a "pair of centers" almost touching the mains would accomplish what I want.

Then again, all I have to do is haul my sorry butt up two flights of stairs for the other M2 to see how it works. A pair of M2s or M3s would also work fine if they were both upside-down on top of the TV. I think there are lots of options.

I'm tempted to try the VP100 and see how it compares. I guess they put that shielding in for a reason

[EDIT] A pair of M2s or M3s *under* the TV would probably also work fine, they would be far enough away from the CRT to avoid colour fringing.

Last edited by bridgman; 10/16/04 08:22 PM.

M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: VP100 vs. VP150 vs. M22 vs. QS4 vs. M3 vs...
#64655 10/16/04 08:28 PM
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Yeah, I'd think if it was distorting from the woofer on the top, a pair on the sides won't work so well, either. Now, if you could get Axiom to sell you a shielded 5.25" woofer from the VP100 or VP150 to install in the M2...

I was going to use my old Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble sats as a center, but the amount of (visual) distortion was incredible, even with them about a foot away from the tube. Makes me wonder what kind of damage I've done to the TV over the years with them on bookshelves nearby...


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: VP100 vs. VP150 vs. M22 vs. QS4 vs. M3 vs...
#64656 10/17/04 03:17 AM
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axiomite
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Facts, I have facts !

Did a few more experiments :

1. Moved the speaker so it was horizontal and a couple of inches below the bottom of the TV. No colour fringing but the sound seemed a bit less "clear" than with the M2 on top.



2. Tried putting the M2 vertically on each side of the TV to see if there was color fringing. No fringing on the left side, and a tiny bit when the speaker was on the right side, although moving it ~1/2" away from the TV was enough to make the fringing go away.

I think this is something to do with the arrangement of the phosphor dots on the CRT. I guess it might also have something to do with the fact that I was using a solid blue screen as a reference, hope I didn't miss something by only having one gun active. Will have to try some tests with different images.

I haven't tried listening with the speaker beside the TV yet but will also give that a try over the weekend.


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
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