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Re: The light comes on...
#64677 10/18/04 05:54 AM
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axiomite
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axiomite
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How about a VP100 on top of the TV with a small vase holding fresh flowers on each side ? What the eye does not see...


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: The light comes on...
#64678 10/18/04 05:56 AM
Joined: May 2003
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On a 27" TV? Naw, she hates it on Peter's 32". We've discussed... If I could set it down lower slightly behind the TV, it would be fine, but something tells me the imagaging would be a little lacking.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: The light comes on...
#64679 10/18/04 06:40 AM
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shareholder in the making
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Again, very interesting John. Yes two speakers at the sides shouldn't provide as stable a center image for dialog, etc. as one speaker centered above(or below)the screen. What you have is actually a mini-phantom center formed by the two and the image should shift as the listener moves left or right, but not beyond the speaker on that side, regardless of how far off to the side the listener is. The same effect occurs with a regular two speaker stereo setup when it plays a mono source; as you move out of the center the image stays in front of you as far out as the speaker to that side. By the way, my preference remains with one vertical center.


-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.


Re: The light comes on...
#64680 10/18/04 12:36 PM
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axiomite
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Thanks, JohnK. I just tried two inverted speakers on top again but without the intervening paperbacks. My mouse pad took one for the cause and is now two raggedy-edged speaker pads. Took the center levels down 3dB from single to compensate. I angled the M2s out a bit, maybe 10 degrees each. Yes, too many variables but I was running out of time and will test without the toe-out later.

Probably the best configuration so far. I don't really understand why two speakers seem to show more detail than one (it's that darned "openness" thing again, I bet ) but definitely seems to be a difference.

Removing the paperbacks lowers the apparent dialog location just enough to not be annoying, but after listening to an M2 on each side I am starting to miss that "dead center" presentation. Not sure why the dialog seems a bit "higher" (vertically) than with a single inverted M2 -- makes me think that I'm still getting more output from the pair even after dropping center level by 3dB (mains are below TV center, centers are above TV centerline so they average to a point dependent on the relative output levels). It should only be 3dB extra even taking into account 4 vs. 8 ohm etc..., right ? Have to stop messing with these and get back to work, or I would break out the meter to see for sure.

So, this leaves me with another choice between seemingly unrelated options :

- use 2 M2s for HT center and pick up a pair of M3s for upstairs

- use 1 M2 for HT center, stay with my current order for a third M2, run 3 M2s across the front and move the M60s upstairs

- replace M2 center with VP100, move the M2s back to "mains" duty upstairs or swap M2s with M60s

Hmmmm. Now I know why everyone keeps dreaming about "ordering one of everything and sending some of it back".


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: The light comes on...
#64681 10/18/04 02:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
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B
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B
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Posts: 3,016
is it just me, but from your previous pics, your sub turned into 2 hairy dogs with glowing eyes?

i am sure they get great bass response.

bigjohn


EXCUSE ME, ARE YOU THE SINGING BUSH??
Re: The light comes on...
#64682 10/19/04 12:13 AM
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Yeah, I heard the best bass came from having two 12-inch woofers. Why, did I do something wrong ? The bass did seem a little thin after the upgrade...


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: The light comes on...
#64683 10/19/04 12:16 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 18,044
shareholder in the making
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Ow.


I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
Re: The light comes on...
#64684 10/19/04 12:40 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
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axiomite
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Sorry, rough day.

FWIW I decided to change my order from a single M2i to a single VP100. We'll see how they compare. Looks wise I think the VP100 will win. The inverted vertical centers look a bit imposing on my mighty 27" CRT.

[EDIT] Picture of the two-center setup. WAF would suck.



But the great thing about the new sub setup is finding the right listening position. Normally the trick is to put the sub into your listening position then crawl around finding where the bass is. This set of woofers crawls around for you, and if you snap your fingers they jump right up into your listening position.



Last edited by bridgman; 10/19/04 01:09 AM.

M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: The light comes on...
#64685 10/21/04 04:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
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axiomite
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axiomite
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Nothing like a shaggy dog story to kill a thread...

OK guys, I have attained HT nirvana and it's not what you would expect...

VP100 showed up today with one corner bashed in, looks like the Purolator guy dropped it on the corner from great height (or with extreme prejudice). I'll ping Amie in the morning to find out what to do. I hooked it up anyways of course. M60s have been moved upstairs (note -- M60s are much more satisfying than M2s in a standalone stereo environment) and I'm running M2s + VP100 + cheapo tower surrounds + PSB sub downstairs.

Pretty darned nice, I have to say. Anyone wondering if the Epic Midi system will be decent for HT shouldn't worry, the M2s sound GREAT as HT mains once you pair them with a good center and even crappy surrounds.

I think part of the "magic" might be finding the right distance between the mains. I kicked back into 2-channel + sub and listened to the new 30th anniversary Dark Side of the Moon and I'm hearing that "$25,000 system" sound again for the first time in years. The M60s would probably sound even better but I'm gonna leave them upstairs for a while.

Don't feel up to any M2 vs. VP100 testing tonight but I will observe that the VP100 looks much better than a pair of vertical centers on my 27" TV.

Here's a picture of my "ultimate HT" setup. I'm REALLY happy with it, even without QS surrounds (next step).



It doesn't look like much but it sure does sound good.


M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
M5HP, M40ti, Sierra-1
LFR1100 active, ADA1500-4 and -8
Re: The light comes on...
#64686 10/21/04 04:41 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,805
connoisseur
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Posts: 1,805
John B
Sorry to get off topic here, but I keep noticeing your signature says "still a hobbyist after 162 posts ; ( "
I must be overly tired to be thinking about this, but have you noticed that hobbyist is spelled two different ways (hobbiest and hobbyest) on board memebers name and discription.
Just found this curious. richeydog is a hobbiest you are a hobbyest.

Last edited by bray; 10/21/04 04:51 AM.

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