Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Review of M60s vs B&W, PSB, Infinity, Polk, Klipsc

Hi guys,

I've been shopping around for speakers and I've listened to the M3's and the M60s. I've comparison shopped with several speaker brands and thought other people might be interested in what my opinions would be. I have a Yamaha RX-V730 receiver and have used it whenever possible for listening. I used the follow music for reference for each speaker:

Massive Attack - Mezzanine - Angel
Sarah McLachlan - Live - Home
Sarah McLachlan - Surfacing - Angel
The Blue Nile - Peace at Last - Peace at Last
Dave Seaman - Renaissance - What is That Sound / Way Out West

My ideal speaker is one that is very neutral and revealing. Detail and transparency are very important to me. I wanted a set of speakers where I really could tell if a recording was well mastered or really sucked. :-)

The speakers I've tested were:

Axiom M3 and M60s
B&W 601, 604, CM2, CM6
PSB 2B, 4T
Infinity IL10
Polk RT25
Klipsch Heresy

The speakers that were out of the running immediately were the Polk and Infinity. The Polks were way to muddy and the Infinity were way too bright.

The Klipsch has a very punchy sound that sounded very good but started to degrade after longer listening. There is distinict emphasis in the upper bass around 250hz with a de-emphasis of treble. The Klipsch's were the bassiest speakers I heard but they lacked finesse and detail.

The PSB's were the most laid back speaker I heard. If you think Axioms are harsh, you will probably like the PSB's although I believe you will lose a lot of detail. The PSB's had weaker bass than the Axioms and not as dynamic. Nor were they as clear in the upper mid-bass, they sounded muddy there.

I really liked the B&W sound but I was not crazy about the price! If I could spend whatever for speakers, the 801's would be high up on my list :-) Nevertheless, I was surprised how well the Axioms held up compared to the B&W's. Firstly, I have to say across the board, the B&W's had a slight bass emphasis in the upper-mid-bass. I think this makes these speakers sound warmer and more balanced than the Axioms which do have a slightly forward sound (the M3s more so than the M60s). I also found that the CM series were distinctly more open and better sounding than the 600 series. The 600s had a congestion that really distracted from their otherwise pleasing sound. The CM series speakers were the next most revealing speaker after the M60s and they did that have the Axiom's characteristic forwardness. However, they also were significantly more expensive - CM2 are $800/pr and CM6 are $1,800! Also, despite neutral sound, the CM's just were not as revealing as the M60s.

The more I listen to speakers and compare them to the Axioms I've heard, the more I am impressed with the Axioms, especially the M60s. It is the Axiom M60's clarity and detail that is its biggest selling point. The M60s were the only speakers where I could hear the lead singer of The Blue Nile tap his feet and whisper instructions to the other band members. There is a swirling effect near the beginning of Massive Attack's Angel that only the M60 got right and reproduced and imaged beautifully adding to the chill-down-your-spine effect of this song. It is the only speaker that I felt really reproduced Sarah McLachlan's voice extremely accurately. I've had the privilege of hearing her at dozens of concerts, and once I was 20 feet away from her at a concert I attended in Vancouver, and I also got to hear her talk at a private press interview. I know very well what her voice sounds like :-) I believe that if Axiom could tone down some of the slight forwardness of the M60s and extend their bass capabilities, they would have the perfect speakers! These are my only criticisms. The M3s were also clear and detailed, but they were very forward compared to the B&Ws and M60s. They also became congested at higher listening volumes. This is something that concerned me since I do enjoy loud electronic music especially electronic dance music.

In order of preference, I would rate the speakers as follows:

1 Axiom M60
2 BMW CM6
3 BMW 604
4 BMW CM2
5 PSB 4T
6 Axiom M3
7 PSB 2B
8 BMW 601

As soon as I get the money, I think I will invest in a pair of M60s. Take care and special thanks to Lando and Jazzdrummer for letting me hear their speakers.

One final thing, I would recommend the purchase of a subwoofer to augment the Axiom speakers. Although I appreciate the M60s neutral and accurate bass, I was yearning for more low frequency kick.

Have I heard speakers better than the M60s? Yes. The B&W 801s are the most revealing speakers I've ever heard. Period. The Quad electrostatics sound as if the artist is there in your living room. The Legacy Focus has a driving sound that I think make them the perfect rock speaker. But these speakers cost at least $5,000!!! I only wish I had that kind of money. :-0

Take care!

I liked your cross-brand speaker review. It is interesting that you tested Sarah McLachlan - Live. Personally I don't think that live recording is of good quality. It sounds too bright and harsh on my Paradigm Mini monitor. I prefer studio recordings.

Just wondering if anybody had chance to compare Paradigm studio 60, Energy C-9,C-7,C-5 with Axiom M60? All these speakers are reputable Canadian brands. I am very impressed by the flatness of NRC measurement on Energy C-9. Energy C-9 looks much better on paper than Axiom M80.

I should have clarified. The SM live recording was a live recording of the song Home that is on a Murmur's collection cd. It was recorded in Toronto, and I think this recording is very well done. If your speakers are good enough, you can actually get a sense of the space of this auditorium. ;-) The M60s definitely delivered :-)

I would LOVE to know what the reviews of the C-9's are. I've heard from the grapevine that the Energy's speakers are more laid back. Ditto for the Paradigm. Do you give up some of that detail for the more laid-back sound?

Good review avikonen! I know you had mentioned alot of this at jassdrummer's house during the demo, but it's great to see it on the forum.

I agree with you that the M60's need a little encouragement in the bass by an added sub, and was a little forward. But, man, oh, man did were those M60's clear and accuate! The Axiom m60's present a sense of presence in the music that other speakers don't have (unless you take out a secound mortgage). All around I believe the m60's to be a well put-to-gether speaker. I thank Jassdrummer for letting us demo his speakers (axiom should give him an extra pair for advertising).

PS.- avikonen, how was the sushi? =P

Bestboy4

Very Good review!

I do agree that the very high end B & W speakers are better than Axiom, but they are about 8,000$ CAD as opposed to about 650$ for M22Ti's. My budget left me with no choice! I have heard the M60's and I do find their sound to be excellent. Polk and Infinity have also never impressed me.

If I became very very rich I would spend tons on a home theatre, but until then, I can get sound that is almost as good but at a fraction of the cost with Axiom speakers.

The sushi was pretty good ;-) I'm trying to save up for a set of M60s ;-)

In my dream fantasy world where I have more money than I know what to do with, I'd have 2 pairs of B&W Nautilus speakers (for front and rear) with a B&W subwoofer and center channel all being powered by Krell amps (drool..... ;-) )

But as I need to keep to a budget, I think I will try and save up for a set of M60s and then later a HSU VTF-2 or SVS sub ;-) I'm not into home theatre yet. I'm more interested in music listening.

Jazzdrummer and Lando were really great to let me come to their homes and spend hours of their time listening to their speakers - thank you very very much! :-)

Something that I wonder if whether the M60s lose some of their forwardness if they are paired with the right amp. Using the Yamaha RX-V730 that I have, they M60s sounded a bit forward. However, I know that that RX-V630 and above receivers are much more neutral than their lower models. I have a friend with a 430 (420?) and it is really bright compared to mine. I wonder how the M60s would sound coupled with an NAD, Adcom, B&K, Naim, or Bryston amp. These amps are known for their neutral sound. One good thing about the 730s is that they have pre-outs for all channels. This makes it an easy upgrade to get a better power amp to power my M60s as I get more money :-)

avikonen

that is a very good point. I have heard that Bryston is an excellent amp, but I believe the audio decoder would have more impact than the amp. Yamaha, NAD, and Denon all make excellent decoders that are very neutral, unlike Sony or something else that is meant for mass market consuming.

Have you looked into outlaw audio. If I had the money, I would purchase their products. They make amps and pre-amps. Their company is a lot like Axiom; small and amazing customer service!

www.outlawaudio.com

Thanks for this tip. I'll check them out. You know. I've heard consistent word-of-mouth from 'audiophiles' that canadian speakers sound best with canadian electronics. I hope someone can remark on this and tell me if there is some veracity to this.

I had a pair of Infinity Composition Overture 3's towers (MSRP a tad under $3000) My Axiom M3ti's BLEW THE INFINITIES AWAY. No comparison. I also had a pair of Infinity RS3s which I used as side surround speakers (about $750 if I recall correctly.) In my opinion, JUNK compared to Axioms. Just my opinion based on my experience. Your results may differ.

In reply to:

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I've heard consistent word-of-mouth from 'audiophiles' that canadian speakers sound best with canadian electronics. I hope someone can remark on this and tell me if there is some veracity to this.

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I have got to admit this is new one on me! Please tell me that this is not a serious comment/observation that someone is trying to tell you is factual? Short answer to this; Please ask yourself does this comment really make any sense? No!

Avik, if an amp could reduce "forwardness"( more likely to be in the recording rather than the speakers)it would be so poorly designed that it had a depressed mid-range. I certainly wouldn't buy such a product at any price. Ruler- flat amp response in that area is nearly universal these days. Problems with aggressively recorded material can be partially compensated by tone controls or a separate equalizer. Speakers and amplifiers should be designed with accuracy in mind, not to correct defects in other areas.

Hi John,

Yes. What you say is true on paper, but then subjectively, we should hear no variation from amp to amp, right? The reality though is that there IS some sonic variation from amp to amp. Otherwise why is it that even the casual listener can pick out differences in the sound coming from 2 different amps when judged from the same speakers? Granted that the difference will not be as large as that between different speakers. If all amps are flat, then why go though all the trouble and expense of getting using tubes or using sophisticated heavy duty electronics to make what should sound the same coming from an assembly line in Malaysia? I think there is enough subjective difference that the amp might change the sonic quality of the recording in a subtle but possibly beneficial way. :-)

In August, I auditioned (in a dealer's listening room) M60's/M80's, Energy C7's/C9's, and Dahlquist QX9's/QX10's. IMHO they are all excellent speakers, great value for the dollar, and all are made in Canada (go Sens go!).

I found the Axioms (both 60's and 80's) to be the most open, accurate, and revealing (i.e., vocals/mid-range was crystal clear), with nice tight bass. Bass extension on the C-9's and QX-10's went down a little further. I found both the Dahlquist and Energy's to be slightly more laid back (a little muddier?) in the mid-range.

As stated above, all are excellent sounding speakers, and within a similar price range. Really comes down to personal preference (how they sound to you), and for the 80's and QX10's, an amp/receiver that can drive 4 ohm loads.

Joe

P.S. I bought a pair of the M60's...sweet-sounding speakers!
The M80's would have been "over-kill" for the size of my listening room.

P.P.S. Great review by the way Avikonen.

Nifty opinions.
Always nice to have another review to peruse.
I never got to hear the B&W 800s myself but i did hear the 603s. Definitely more in the mid range sounding full but taking away from that 'clarity' and of course, more expensive than the Axioms.
I steered away from the B&Ws for those 2 reasons.

avikonen

hearing a difference between amps has a lot of different factors. The differently engineered ways of making them, the quality of internal parts, the binding posts, the difference in power, the cooling system, the dynamic headroom, the power supply, and all the other many ways I do and don't know about. All these, if you change them, will change the amp. I don't think it is pumping more power at a certain frequency. It probably is powering the speaker differently at different volumes and impedances.


Also, about Canadian speakers sounding best with Canadian electronics... I have never heard about this! There are few Canadian electronic makers anyway, however, NAD was recently purchased by a Canadian, I believe.

Five words:

"It's all in the beer"

Agreed. The amp can make a difference in the sound :-) I've often heard that the amp is second to the speakers in most influencing the sound of your system - even more so than the components like the CD/DVD player.

I think I'm being played by the folks who told me canadian speakers sound best with canadian electronics ;-) Nevertheless I'm really impressed with NAD, Parasound, and Anthem. Of course, if money were no object - KRELL! ;-) Then of course I'd be looking at B&W 801 Nautilus'es too.

I'll stick to the budget and save up for some Axioms

Maybe Axioms can make a model that competes with B&W Nautilus 800 line or the Signature 800 line for 1/8 price.

*8)

All interested raise their hand

http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=products.models&label=Model%20Nautilus

That Nautilus flagship speaker is out of this world, and last I heard they are MSRP 54,000 Euros, which is 100,000 CAD.

How much are M80's again?


but, I must admit, if I had 100,000$ lying around and another 100,000$ for electronics to go with them, yeah, I'd buy those.

Yes that Nautilus speaker is alien looking. You think someone out there actually owns one. And what would you play to give that speaker justice. ...Britney?

You really had to twist my arm, I just hate sitting around listening to music and drinking beer.
While your RX-V730 with the M60's may have sounded a little forward, I did not found the combo fatiguing or harsh in the least.
About that comment (thx Bestboy) of Axiom giving me some free speakers - I am completely open to the idea, a pair of M22's would do nice to replace the 10 year old Bose 201's in my living room
The replacement tweeter for the one that I accidentally hosed that night is more than I had hoped for.