Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler I want my SACD, but NEED a cup of coffee...

A B**ch session:

I didn't want to hijack the other thread about Tweeter and B&M audio stores, but I had an experience last night that I had wanted to share….

What the hell is up with employees in music departments of retail giants or even music stores not even knowing what SACD or DVD-Audio is?

If I walked into a Wal-Mart, I wouldn't be surprised if the employee didn't know what these discs were. But, last week in my local Circuit City, I noticed that the Sony end-cap display of SACD was empty of discs, so I asked an employee of the music department if they were put in a new section. He didn't know what I was talking about. I had to walk him over to the "audio hardware" area, about 50 feet away, and show him the empty display. He had never heard of them or was aware that they were there…. I know that the display was there for months.

Last night, I walked into a FYE (For Your Entertainment, a chain with hundreds and hundreds of stores) and asked two employees if they had a section for these discs.

"Oh, DVDs with music? Like concert videos? They're over there."

"No, not concert videos. They're audio discs. It's a higher-resolution format, and offers surround re-mixes."

"DVDs HAVE audio, already."

"These AREN'T regular DVDs. It's an entirely different format."

"I don't know what you're talking about, so I guess we don't have them."

"So you don't have any SACDs either? Super Audio Discs?" (clearly baiting a bit at this point as I'm annoyed that he's giving me attitude like I asked, on a bet, for something me and my friends clearly made up).

"I don't know what those are either, so I guess we don't have them."

Now, I know that these are probably minimum wage jobs and not likely career choices. And I DO know that their possible knowledge of music will serve them better than the knowledge of delivery systems. Further, I know that these two formats are certainly NOT flying off shelves; my understanding is that sales are pretty damn small as a percentage.

But really…

If you work in a music store… your sole focus is music… how can you be completely unfamiliar with formats that have thousands of releases and have been out a couple of years?

If you work in the music department of a large retailer like Circuit City, how can you be oblivious to a display of discs and a department that sells the players for these discs fifty feet away?

I'm not going to deny that this is a somewhat passionate topic for me. I LOVE music, and am enjoying the somewhat limited selection of these discs that I own. I purchased a Pioneer 578 specifically for these discs, with the intention of it being a temporary measure to the $1100 Denon 3910 universal player I want to match my Denon receiver. I thought I'd dislike surround music ("Who the hell wants to hear instruments BEHIND them?") but found instead that I like it once I experienced it. I want to hear my coming Axioms with the best versions of the best discs I can, with the QS-8s holding their own in mixes that demand much of the rears. I want these formats to succeed. I don't want to see them go the way of Quad or Betamax. I don't want to wait another 5 years for someone to come up with some audio version of BlueRay with 10.2 / 384Khz sound. But how is this format going to survive if it's not only NOT marketed, but doesn't even flash a glimmer of awareness among those in the trenches?

OK. Disc sales numbers being what they are, I don't expect rows of displays in the B&Ms, and I'm not totally surprised that there aren't even small displays in some stores. But can't a store or department manager even MENTION to an employee that these discs exist? That they're available on the prospective companies websites by the thousands?

Shouldn't employees be aware of their existence, even if they're not carried within the store itself?

Incompetence is an epidemic in this society. I, literally, spend hours and hours every week, correcting the errors of others.

I just had a one month go round with my long distance carrier, which had changed affiliations from Worldcom to Sprint. You wouldn't believe me, if I told you, what I had to go through.

Suffice to say that more than once, I waited as long as two and one half hours to reach a customer service representative who was totally unable to solve the problem. Unbelievable!

i feel your pain mark. i think, at a minimum, the employees should at least know where the products are for the particular section they work in.. and the whole, "i dont know what you are talking about, so i guess we dont have them", doesnt work with me.

when i worked the health/beauty section at walmart when i was in high school, i knew every damn brand and style of tampon/pad, and i had never seen on in my life before i worked there..!!

"whats that mam? you need the two-ply, double absorbancy, non scented with wings? top shelf on the right!"

bigjohn

Mark
I had an experiance recently much like your own.
In the Dallas area we have Borders Books and Records. Its a huge chain with one of the better selections of music. I asked a sales person where the saccds are at, and I got the same blank stare I'm sure you got.
After I had him check his computer, it turns out they do carry sacd and dvda, but they are mixed in with the regular cds. Also he couldnt or wouldnt take the time to tell me what they had in those formats.
I've started shopping elsewhere.

bray- if you have a local 'hastings' give them a shot.. the sacd's and dvd-a's are kept separate, and they have an above average selection at good prices.. usually a couple bucks more than onlines like amazon/barnes nobles, etc, but you get to take it home right then.. thats worth a few bucks to me..

bigjohn

I wished Dallas still had Hastings. I actually grew up with the Hasting family in Amarillo. They started in a store about the size of a 7-11, and because of good customer service they have spread all over Texas. We had a few in the Dallas area for a while, but now they do business only in smaller citys and towns. I bought my first album from them: Three Dog Night-Joy to The World.

This all makes me really appreciate my local Tower Records in NYC. They have just about every available popular DVD-A and SA-CD, in a separate section. Of course, I'm usually the only one in that separate section, so it's quiet also. LOL.

Unfortunately, their prices are generally MSRP, so I usually browse and then buy online. But for impulse purchases, it's great to have a block away. They even have hundreds of classical SA-CD and DVD-A in their classical section of the store if so inclined.

Otherwise, I've given up on the Circuit City's and Best Buy's of the world for hi-rez. None of their employees know what the heck any of these formats are. And their selections are getting thinner by the day.

Bray,

Not sure where you are located in Dallas, but the last time I was there, there was a Hastings across from Town East Mall in Mesquite...

Used to live over there many moons ago and it was built after I left town...

Things DO change, but it may still be there...

WhatFurrer

WhatFurrer
I live very close to that area, it is now a "Tweeter".

Bray:
Actually, I forgot about an experience at Borders in that it was several months ago, when I was only on the fringe of redoing my HT. You're right; same blank stare, etc...

Except originally, they had a small, separate display of them in the middle of an open area. When I returned a few weeks later, the discs had been "absorbed" into the regular bins.

I've bought online also, but I'm really trying to buy local when I can. As another mentioned, sometimes it's worth a couple of extra dollars to have it right away rather than waiting for shipping. But also, naive is it might be, I'm hoping that if the number of discs sold climb a bit in the local stores, they might see it as a growing format and allocate more to their stock instead of less as others are doing.

Right now, my local Best Buy is the ONLY dealer that has them separate from the regular discs. I'm buying two or three dics a week and trying to keep most of those purchases local when they actually have a disc I'm interested in!

Many in business today just don't get it............if you pay peanuts....you get monkeys.

Shouldn't that be elephants? I thought you got monkeys when you paid bananas.

No,......those getting paid peanuts would love to get bananas...............that would mean a raise!

I have never had the "blank look" experience but I have had the "I'm pulling this info out of my ass" experience.

Ever tried to buy anything from a CC/BB type store (they call them "Future Shop" or "Visions" where I come from)and knew that the salesperson was outright LYING to you? I was in the market for a new subwoofer for my car and the salesman told me that because a certain sub had dual voice coils it would be inherantly louder. Now I can understand if he had said it could handle more power (which is still untrue as far as I know but at least then it could have just been that he was mixed up) but he said that just because it had two voice coils that it was louder... obviously loudness has NOTHING at all to do with the amp at all... I actually argued with him saying that two voice coils merely add to the wiring options (changing the impedance)but he would not beleive me. I mean I knew more about his products than he did and the only "research" I had done was to look up topics on the internet for a totaly of about five minutes while he has been working at teh store for at least two years (I know because I have seen him there on several occasions). The thing that got me was that it wasn't like he was just using slick marketing gimmicks on me, I can understand those because companies actually train employees to use gimmicks to sell product... but he was just simply LYING... I mean what about the next kid that bought his lies and was disapointed with his audio system in the end? Or what about me or people like me that know a little bit about audio that go into stores and encounter the same type of ignorance? Do we deserve to have our intelligence insulted in that way?

This is why I am VERY glad that I found out about Axiom because I am frankly never going to talk to a salesman again. When I bought my receiver I researched it on the internet, went to the store and told the salesman to get me what I wanted. I think that salesmaen should be illegal and stores should simply have a wealth of knowledge about everything that they carry (written by an unbiased third party) so that consumers can make their own choices and avoid ignorance about the things they buy...

[/end rant]

Canadians 'should' be better off buying from A&B Sound than either Future Shop or BB. Though I've never been in a Tweeter, it sounds closer to the type of product carried @ A&B - slightly higher end than Best Buy/Circuit City/Future Shop. I've always found the staff to be reasonably knowledgeable and CDs/DVDs are quite often as cheap as anywhere. They also have a separate DVD-A/SACD section, and employees will know where to find it. I often find myself leaving the store with 5 or 10 cds at a time. Most other places I might find one bargain per visit.

Ever heard of Monster cable?

Mark, if you can bear to look at the RIAA site, here are the latest available mid-year 2004 sales figures. The abysmal DVD-A/SACD figures illustrate one reason for the lack of enthusiasm or even knowledge about them. Of course the lack of at least knowledge can't be justified and might be one reason for the abysmal figures.

Bigjohn, at least now anyone who happens to have a tampon question knows who to ask.

I don't doubt that a good part of it is a chicken and egg situation, but I DO lean towards your thought that the ignorance on the part of sales staff isn't helping.

I didn't bring this up in my original post this morning, but found myself rereading my post this afternoon and had another thought:

Getting back to the responsibility of managers and supervisors to enable their sales staff to have at least a passing knowledge of related technology, isn't it funny that in a store such as Circuit City, you have sales staff in one corner likely touting a player that is SACD and/or DVD-Audio capable and yet, a customer that hears of those features and walks over to the music department won't be able to find a disc... and possibly be told by a staff member over there that they've never even heard of them?

With the tiny margins some of these stores face, you'd think that if they set up a rack of some discs in the equipment section and energize a few buyers, a reasonable number of them would not only buy the $150 universal DVD player, but also $50 worth of discs to take home with it!

The left hand has no clue what the right hand is doing; yet they work alongside each other under the same management. That's just sloppy and scary!

I think they're probably more focused on selling high margin items (or expensive ones) such as Bose, Monster, or extremely large televisions. Who cares about a $500 disc player when you're trying to sell a $5000 plasma TV?

Everytime I walk into The Good Guys I get Monster products pushed on me. They really push that crap. Try to find a salesperson to help you look at speakers or a tv...good luck, but they won't let you out of the store with out a pair of Monster cables. Bizaare behavior.

speaker of Monster...read this thread:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=214568

Do you have any concept of the margins on cables? My company bought a cable company, and they regularly speak of 100-300% markups. And this is standard computer cables, etc. It costs about $5 to make a SCSI cable, they charge $80. There's a reason they're pushing Monster. $$$$$$$