Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Need advice, disappointed w/M22's, VP150

I've been helpng my neighbor choose a system for his newly remodeled living room. I brought him to a few local places to listen to speakers, and out of the brands we listened to, he really liked the Paradigm Studio 40's, but can't afford them. After reading the great reviews for Axiom, and the fact that the Mansfield veneer is a great match for his new room, he pulled the trigger and bought M22's, VP150 and the QS8's. We hooked them up to a Yamaha HTR-5590, no sub as he's still deciding what he wants. His room is very large, 20'w x 25'D and the ceiling slopes from 9' up to 18'. It's open to the kitchen in the back, and a dining room in the back corner as well. Listening position is about 15' from the speakers and there's a rug over the hardwood floor.

To put it simply, the system doesn't sound "alive." It sounds kind of hollow and muted to both of us, both with music and movies. There's no life to it. His wife commented that they sounded like "boom box speakers." I wouldn't go that far, but honestly both of us feel like they should sound much better. He has a pair of large, no name speakers as well, so I hooked them up to compare, they had more bass, less clarity, but taking away the low end response there was not a dramatic difference like there should be.

I decided to bring my receiver over, a Pioneer VSX 811 to see if maybe the receiver was the problem. It sounded different, but not really better or worse. So I brought over my sub, a SVS 25-31CS+ along with my trusty Adcom 555II to power the sub bridged. Well, it definitely helped, especially with all speakers set to small, but still it doesn't sound right. The only way I was able to acheive reasonable results was to us my Pioneer as pre, and power the M22's full range with the Adcom. Then we noticed a difference, the overall response was far better, though still a bit short of expectations. Perhaps some of it is us expecting too much, I'm not sure. I know the M22's are small for the room, but budget constraints are why he got them over the M60's. One note, the QS8's sound very good, but then that's surround duty so it's hard to evaluate them on the same level.

What else can we try? I've tried adjusting a number of settings on the receiver, along with listening in different positions and heights relative to them to no avail. There's not a lot of space to move them around because of furniture and even still I don't think it would open up the sound THAT much. At this point, what options are there? Is it the receiver, or maybe he just has to get the M60's? Any advice would be helpful as I'd hate for him to have to ship them back.....

Thanks,
Kevin

That's a pretty BIG room with a lot of cubic feet of air. I'd have gone with the 60s or 80s.

First mistake was getting the M22's. If your buddy likes the Paradigm 40's, he should really look at the M50's from Axiom. I have had both and they are close to each other. The M22's sound nothing at all like the Paradigms. If he can swing the cash, he may want to try the M60's but I have never heard them so I can't be much help on that end.......One thing I can say is that I have had the M80's from Axiom and they don't sound like the Paradigm 40's either!

I would also agree thats an awful big room for the 22s.That being said the 22s,60s and 80s are said to have the same sonic signature.So as Neverhappy said if the Paradigm 40s is the sound he likes maybe the M50s would have been a better choice.

Way to much room for a bookshelf speaker.

Yep, that is an awfully big space to expect the M22s to fill especially when you throw in the kitchen and dining room.

I presume that you guys calibrated the system and checked for reversed speaker wires.

You could try shrinking the listening bubble by moving all speakers closer (about 10' or less) to the listening position to create a more near field listening situation.

He's gonna need one big ass sub for that space one of these days.

In reply to:

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He's gonna need one big ass sub for that space one of these days.

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Thats for sure.

First off, check your speaker wires to insure that + is going to + and - is going to -.

To test the idea that the M22's are not the best why not try moving the system into another, smaller room so that you can get the feel for the Axiom speakers. It may be a hard pill to swallow for your friend when we all say move to the M50, M60's or M80's if he thinks the Axiom brand may not be for him. Move the system into a guest room and test out the set up. I do know that the M22's are a little more forward then the M60's (I have both) so if he is looking for more bass and "room filling sound" that may be the way to go. If the M2's are still in the 30 day trial, return them for the M50's or what I recomend to my friends the M60's.

In a room that size you will need a good sub. Take a look at:

SVS
HSU
Outlaw Audio

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Thanks for the fast responses!! A couple of notes. While he did like the Studio 40's, he wasn't 100% sold on them and I don't think he, (or myself for that matter) expected a duplicate of the 40's. We did expect a bit more of them M22's. That said, I agree that the m22's are overmatched in the room, and my first thought after wondering if maybe there was a wiring issue (and I told you so, because I told him to get the M60's) was that the hollow sound might be due to two things: the need for larger speakers to fill the space and the acoustics of the room. The room does seem to have an empty sound to it, not quite an echo thanks to the furniture, but I think that might be part of the problem. Maybe he needs to put more stuff in it, lol. Basically, from what you're saying the M60s sound similar but more laid back, which sounds like it would be a good thing

I know there have been different threads about receivers and separates. Do you feel that perhaps that's an aspect as well, and perhaps a newer receiver might make a difference? I just know that the M22's did sound far better full range with 200watts from my Adcom than with the 5590. Speaking of subs, you're right he could really use a big sub. Right now, again because of his budget, tops he can spend is 1k which will probably mean a pb12isd/2. Maybe he can stack another one on top of it in the future. My CS+ actually does a good job moving air, so the room is bass friendly for the size, at least


I'll be over there tonight to do some movie watching and more calibrating so I'll report back. I haven't ordered avia yet, so I'll have to wing it with some test tones and my rat shack spl meter. I'll try them in my small room too and see how they sound that way....

Kevin

If his budget is $1K for a sub he can get some nice ones, the new Axiom EP500 being one of them.

Or try a HSU VTF3.
I have one in a simular room, and it FLAT OUT ROCKS!!!!