Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater 2900, 2910 or 3910.......Need help

Good Evening,
I was already to purchase a 2910 once my local dealer gets them back in stock. Then somebody told me about the 2900 and how it has a different type of chip in it that is better than the Faroudja(sp) Processor. I was sold on the 2910 because of the DVI connection in the back. I have a Hitachi 57T500, so with that in mind My question for anybody that might be able to answer it is:
Which DVD player has the potential to give me the best picture quality with my TV? I know this is a subjective question, but any insight would be great.

Thanks in advance.

Coach,

I am basically doing the same thing, since I building a new HT system. I found this link http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi

You can sort by reviewed dates, manufacture, types and some other stuff. BTW, I decided on the 2900, mainly because the 2910 was not reviewed here and the 2900 appears to be the best bang for the buck.

Del D

Jeff, I apologize for the information I provided in your original post this morning at 11:11 (BTW, it works better if you stay within the same thread as opposed to making a new post on the same subject). The info may have served to confuse.

I'll try to answer your question a bit more directly. The issue isn't necessarily the TV. It really boils down to what the DVD player processes and sends to the TV. The 2900 Silicon Image chip provides a picture that has more vibrant color, is smooth and has an almost 3-D quality. The 2910 uses the Faroujda chip which gives good, but less vibrant color, is crisper and more detailed on the edges and does not have a 3D quality. The audio on the 2900 is much better.

Having said all of that, you really owe it to yourself, as I suggested this morning, to spend an hour at the AVS Forum where this subject has been covered in great detail. It will give you a much better feel for the sizeable expenditure you are about to make. The gist of the information is that the 2900 PQ is better than the 2910. If possible, see if you can view the 2900 and 2910 side-by-side or even in different stores if you must.

If you are looking for a recommendation, my input is that the 2900 PQ is noticeably better than the 2910. Del also makes anther good point, for a variety of reasons, including build quality, the 2900 is a better bang for the buck. But, as everything in HT tends to be, my opinion is subjective and is pleasant to my eyes. At the end of the trip, you will need to make your own decision.

Thank you very much for your help. I am going to call a couple of different dealers in the Cincinnati area and see which locations have the 2900 and 2910. There are 4 Denon dealers in Cincinnati, three of which are good dealers. I am not sure which locations will have both on display. I am willing to purchase from 3 of the 4 dealers because the 4th has lied to me a couple of times....

I guess I am still torn between getting a player with newer technology for the same price as one with out it. But, if the Silicon Image Chip is going to be better for watching movies, then that might be the one for me. Do any of the new Denon DVD players with DVI/HDMI connections utilize the Silicon Image Chip?

No, the newer units don't use the SI chip. It is more expensive and Denon made a conscious decision to use the cheaper Farojda chip to keep the price down. Also, don't get hung up on newer/older technology. The reason DVD players exist, first and foremost is for PQ. Audio is nice, but the film's the thing.

The technology add-on in the 2910 and 3910 really boils down to upconverting and zooming. They also have DVI/HDMI. Most accounts I have read on these things, even beyond Denon equipment, is that they don't provide the end result that people get excited about.

Shop where you will, but keep Crutchfield's $699 (or less in their Outlet or Scratch & Dent) price in the back of your mind. Their Customer Service is as legendary as Axiom's and everything comes with a 30 day no questions asked return privelige that includes freight both ways.

As a matter of fact, I just checked and they have a black 2900 in Scratch & Dent for $594 as I type this. Hmmmm! It won't last long, but another would likely show up soon.

Ray,
What cables are you using to hook up your 2900? I was a "Monster" guy due to my 7 years with Circuit City. But, after purchasing a 35 dollar subwoofer cable from BlueJeancables.com that made my sub sound better than 300 dollars worth of monster cable, I have changed my mind. I think due to having the type of TV I have, and the price, I might go for the 2900. One more question, what kind of audio cable are you using?
Thanks

Jeff, all of my interconnects came from Blue Jeans. I use the Belden 1694A with the Canare connectors. Well made and reasonably priced (as opposed to Monster Price). I'm not a big believer in the "magic" of super copper, silver and gold - Blue Jeans stuff just works. As a matter of fact, I have the 2900 hooked up with Blue Jeans component cables.

I notice you also use the Denon 3803. How do you like it? I moved up from the 1803 to get mine (nothing more compelling than upgradeitis ).

I was just about to add another post when I saw your reply here. Just thinking out loud. The Scratch & Dent unit at Crutchfield isn't going to last and it's at a killer price. You might consider grabbing it right now. You are going to spend money on a DVD player anyhow and the shipping to and from is free (double check that BTW). Worst case is that you try it for 30 days and ship it back. Best case is you love it (and you will) and you save another $100 to boot. Also pay no sales tax.

Once you get all settled down with the DVD thing and you are enjoying movies, we need to get you into a Home Theater master MX-700 remote with the money you save on the DVD player . You can set it up to make that 3803 dance, including individual + / - controls for each of your speakers and subwoofer.

Let us know how this all works out for you.

Ray,
I purchased the 3803 last year from 6ave.com when they were offering the 3802 for 699.99 and were out of it. So, they subbed the 3803 for the same price. Previously I had the onkyo's flagship model. I was in a rental house with an awesome basement, so It was a great receiver. Then, my wife and I bought a new house and I went to a smaller room. The 3803 seems to do great for me. I have been happy and have considered even upgrading to the 3805, but no need to do that. The priority for me right now is to purchase a better DVD player. The 910 is just not cutting it.

As far as remotes go, I just purchased the RMAV3100 from a local retailer for 104 plus tax. I was shocked that they were selling this for 149.99 regular price and I got "Preferred Customer" price due to the fact the store manager used to work for me when i was at Circuit City. My uncle has either the same remote or the previous model and it was VERY easy for my wife to use and that is the main reason for getting the remote.

I am still trying to figure out if I should use an optical cable or a Coax. cable for my new 2900? What is your opinion?

The debate rages on optical vs. coax. I've tried both and found no difference in sound. I settled on optical because it was more flexible and easier to work with. Picked up RCA at a local Home Depot.

Interesting about the 3100. I had one and the touch screen drove me nuts. Sounds like you are enjoying yours though.

Actually, i just bought it earlier tonight and I have not even taken it out of the box. I will get to messing around with it on Friday because my wife has to go in and get caught up on work..... So, If all goes right, i will have a new remote to setup along with a new DVD player. I will just use my current COmponent cables until i get the component cables from Bluejeancables.

Ray and Coach,

I want to thank you both for your replies here, makes me feel a lot better about spending $650 on the 2900. (My Dad thought I had fallen on my head when I told him how much it cost, LOL)

Could either of you provide a link to the blue jean cable you are referring too? I am not having a lot of luck when searching for the link. I will need cables very soon, as I should finish buying all my components in the next couple of weeks.

Again, thank you very much for the posts, a lot of good information.

BTW - I am also considering buying the MX-700 remote. I was waiting until I had the remote from the 3805 to see if I needed the MX-700. I have read good reviews on the MX-700, but would be very interested in your thoughts.

Del D

Blue Jeans Cable

Like I have stated in earlier posts, the feed back I get off of this forum and other forums like The Spot and AVS, is how I make my decisions on which HT gear to purchase. Before coming to the SPOT, I was already to purchase Paradigm speakers and another Velodyne Sub. Then, after talking to people on here I was referred to AXIOM and HSU and saved literally thousands on my speakers and sub. I spent 7 years with Circuit City, and I know how sales people can be. I didn't make as much money as I probably could have when i was a sales counselor because I wouldn't sell what made me or the company the most money. That is also why I didn't care to be a sales manager with them for very long. On here, people are honest and that is what counts. When I went to purchase my DENON AVR3803, all the Denon Dealers tried to sell me the 4802 or even the 5803 except one of them. That dealer tried to tell me that the 2803 would be perfect for my room. Unfortunately, when i showed him the deal on 6ave.com, he told me to go for it because he couldn't match it.. In fact, he ended up buying a couple for his shop...lol
Let me know if you decide to go with the 2900. I am about 80% sure I am going that route unless something else drastically changes my mind..

I see Mark got you the link for Blue Jeans (Do you ever sleep??).

Simply put, the MX-700 blows the Denon remote away. Since you have the 3805, there is an added bonus. If you look at the recent thread involving the 700, I provided quite a bit of info. Briefly - there is a file at Remote Central in "Philips Pronto and Pronto Pro" section that can be used via the Universal Browser function of the MX-Editor software. It was created by David Gray (there are 2 files there and you want the older one) and he provides EVERY remote command available for Denon receivers. If you are looking for a universal remote, the MX-700 is a no brainer.

Hey Ray,
I ordered the 2900 Scratch and Dent today from Crutchfield after spending all morning going back and forth with the decision. I was shocked because I asked them to NEXT AIR ship the order and they only charged me 20.00.
BUT........I also picked up a 2910 at my local dealer today so I can compare. I have 7 days to return the 2910 without and penalties.... I just want to be 100% sure.
I will also have my Component and DVI cables delivered on Friday. So, by LATE Friday night or early Saturday i will let you know what I think.

HAVE A GREAT TURKEY DAY!

Coach

Excellent!!, I for one am looking forward to your review of these two players.

Now THAT'S a plan.

Okay, here is part I of my review:

The Denon 2900 arrived at 9:00 and my Component cables arrived at noon and I finally got it all hooked up to my TV. Ray, you were right this thing is built like a tank. I put this box next to the 2910 and it makes the 2910 look "tiny".

I put in Star Wars Episode I and watched a few scenes.. right away I could see a difference..

Then, I put in Fast and the Furious and watched the same scene I have been testing the other players. I like to use the sunrise scene on chapter 2 to really see if there is any interference or static in the picture. I saw it on my 910 and the Samsung 831 via DVI. The 2900 virtually eliminated it. I had to lean in and really look for it....

Finally, I put in 50 first dates. I enjoy using this one because of the all the bright colors of the ocean and scenes around the islands. After watching this movie, I believe I am sold on the 2900. I think the combo of the better cables and performance of the player is slam dunk. Now, I was only sampling the video and I didn't hook up the audio to my reciever. I am going to assume that the audio is going to be as good or better than the audio i get from my 910. I also purchased a new audio cable from Blue Jean to replace the monster I have.

The picture quality of the 2910 via DVI is going to have to be BASICALLY FLAWLESS for me to send back the 2900.

Did you do anything with the Black level settings on the DVD player? I didn't do anything yet.
Also, I have not ran any kind of calibration on the video. I have just used setting recommendations from other forum members and it looks good. So, I purchase one of those discs down the road. Any opininons?

Well... I will let you know how the second player looks ASAP.

Well, after figuring out how to change over to the DVI connection I was able to do a A/B comparison between the Component and DVI picture on the 2910. I watched scenes from Phantom Menace and 50 first dates and I am still debating. I am going to pick up Spiderman 2 from a local retailer that has it stock. I think that will be a good movie to test the two players....Then, I will be able to make decision....

I will give you another update later on.

Thanks,

Coach

Good to see you have all your toys!!!

Set the 2900 black level to Darker. The calibration disk I prefer to use is AVIA. Keep us posted.

Testing Day 2:

I decided to try some other movies and so far I have only tested them on the 2910 via DVI. I think my TV is calibrated pretty well because after running through some video tests on a calibration disc my brother let me borrow, I didn't have do anything major.

I am still torn between the two players... I think after I finish posting this, I am going to watch the indentical scenes i just watched on the 2910 on the 2900.

I think the worse part is going to be trying to take back the 2910 to the store. Those guys have been so helpful and I am going to feel bad taking it back.... But, oh well...

More to come later...

I axiously await the results. Though I'd still be interested to hear how the DVI pans out with a front projector. From what I hear, this is when DVI is more of a desired feature.

So, you gonna buy a front projector so we can test that too

First of all, I would not consider myself that much of a pro on what REALLY makes a picture good or bad. I did spend 7 years in the industry. BUT.....It was with Circuit City and I have not worked for them in almost 4 years. So, technology has changed dramatically.

After going back and forth with the two players.. I think I am really starting to like how the DVI does on my TV. I have heard several people say that it doesn't make a difference, but I was EXTREMELY impressed on how it did with the 3 original star wars movies. Especially in Return of the Jedi when Han and Luke are being sent out to "die" by Jabba. The shot of the sand and blue sky was pretty awesome. The 2910 allows you to switch from DVI and Component and I kept switching back and forth. The Component even looks real good on the 2910. The 2900 seemed to have more "bleeding" than I would like. I am not sure if that is the proper way of explaining it or not.

I am going to go down and watch my DAWGS whoop up on Georgia Tech on HDTV before going to a family party tonight. Then, when I get home tonight, I will look at it one more time... but I think I am leaning towards the 2910 now.

Ray, I know you probably want to ring my neck... but everybody has there on opinion and likes... I do appreciate everything you recommended....

Click back later!

Absolutely no neck wringing happening here!!!

The whole thing about this crazy HT hobby, aside for the expense is to end up with something YOU like. Subjectivity is the driver and pleasure is the desired state. The way you have tackled this is perfect and when you are done, you won't have any nagging doubts. Grab the one you like and be happy. I'm just pleased that the whole discussion and testing things happened since other folks may also gain some knowledge from it.

just when I think everything is okay with my system....My HD keeps cutting in and out. I changed the component cables today and I wonder if that is it.... OH WELL..

The good news is, I think my local cable company was having some problems last night because my cousin was having problems with his HD as well.

The decision has been made and the 2900 is packed up and waiting to be dropped off at UPS tomorrow morning. I haven't put the 2910 into the entertainment center because right now I have the silver version and the manager ordered me one in black and it should be in tomorrow or Tuesday.

Once I get everything hooked up, I am going to take some pictures and let everybody see..

Thanks for all the help and I hope I do not have any problems with my new DVD player..:)

Thanks for taking us along on the journey, Jeff. Good stuff.

I want to say thank you too, I went on a hunch and bought the 2910 myself. Glad to see you liked it also, I cant wait to get mine. (I should have mine by the 7th.) At the moment I am using a Samsung DVD player, although it is brand new, I don’t think it is going to hold a candle to the 2910.

Thanks again for the review, take care.

Outstanding solution. Now you'll be totally pleased with the end result. Thanks for keeping us on board as you went through the testing.

Ray,

You talked me into in. I ordered the 2900 as a Xmas gift. I hope the recipient will be very happy with it. I have one question, for anyone who owns one. Are there any disc types this deck won't play?

Bruce, one of the reasons I chose the 2900 is because it pretty much plays anything you can put on a CD or DVD disk. My previous unit was somewhat limited and I really wanted to have the capability to see photos on a CD.

I have seen some forum traffic that indicates it is a bit finicky with disks that are damaged or cscratched heavily, but that seems to be the only issue. Most often reseating the disk in the tray or simply opening/closing the tray will allow the disk to work. In any event, the issue is not a showstopper. I should have waited - you could have surprised me with one for Christmas too!!!

Thanks, Ray. That's just what I wanted to hear. If it would have cost one penny more, I wouldn't have purchased it. But, I feel I made the right choice. I think it's a lot just to listen to NIN.

Thanks so much for the 2900/2910 comparisons.

Anyone know anything about the 3910? What does $600 more get you over the 2910?

Hmmm...perhaps someone with more knowledge of these specs and shed some light...

Looking at the description of the 3910 vs the 2910 on the Denon website I noticed a different DAC is used by these players...

The 3910 uses this.
The 2910 uses this.

Like I said, someone with greater knowledge of what all those specs mean would have to explain it to me. To my eyes, a $3 part was replaced with a $6 part, and the price went up $600. There's got to be more to it than that, no?

I did a cursory look at the differences, but once I settled on the 2900 I pretty much lost interest in the 3910. There is quite a bit of detail at AVS, but I'll provide some of the big differences that I know about.

The video electronics are the same between the 2910/3910, except the 3910 has DPIC (Denon Pixel Image Correction). I don't know what that is. When I saw them side by side in an A/B on the same set, I could not tell a difference in the PQ.

The 3910 offers the following over the 2910:
- Variable bass management vs. fixed crossover
- Noticeably better audio DACS.
- PIC adjustments (4:3, wide, zoom) on the fly
- IEEE 1394 connection
- Denon Link
-RS-232 port for 3rd party controllers

The 3910 also weighs 17 pounds vs. the 2910 coming in at 12 pounds. That usually means power supply.

The big differences appear to be in audio (which I can verify first hand), connections and flexibility in adjustments. The only advantages the 3910 holds over the 2900 is in connections and slight audio DACs, but (to my eyes) the 2900 PQ is better.

The 2900 audio is also superb. Hope that helps, in a non-technical sort of way.

Also, Craig, although the $6 DAC has measurably better specs, even the $3 DAC performs beyond the needs of human ears and the recorded material which is available.

Hey, Coach,

Now you need to update your sig with your new component!

(suppose he's too busy watching movies to do that, now)