Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater What is a good value receiver?

I just got me the big Epic 80 set and now I need a receiver to hook it to. Something that can run another set of speakers in another room would be excellent. Other nice features might be; good power, great remote, easy to operate, not very expensive. Just an all around good receiver for the money. I don't need a debate on this receiver is "brighter" than another because I don't think I would notice anyway.
Someone must have looked at all kinds of receivers and found just the right one, or found a better one after buying theirs. I would like to know the big differences between $300, $600, and higher priced units. Is is worth it?
People smart enough to buy axiom speakers must know something; now share!

Thanks,
SirBlastaLot

Check out ecost.com for some refurbed Denons, or accessories4less for used Marantz. I use a Denon 2803, which I'm very happy with. IMO, once you get into a certain price range they're all pretty much the same. As long as it powers up your speakers, you're in business.

Well one problem you may have is that you'll need to find a receiver that can drive the 4ohm load of the M80's. So at $300-600 you may be very limited or lucky to find one. The Axiom folks usually say Denon, HK, or NAD will work, but they may be referring to the higher end models from those manufacturers. Hopefully some other M80 folks will chime in for you....

I like your name. With a name like that you are probably used to 500 W/channel. You need to consider that while making your next purchase. Rock on.

I'd recommend the Pioneer VSX-1014-Tx. It is a rebadged Elite 52Tx minus the glossy finish on the front panel, RS-232 Computer connection (to view the MCACC results on the PC), and 12V trigger input (it still has a 12v trigger output, however).

I bought this receiver to replace a Yamaha, and I find that it's very powerful and well designed. I also like the built-in bi-amp main-channels functionality, as I chose to not go 7.1 yet. Having an effective 220Wx2 for stereo combined with excellent DACs (24bit 192 kHz on all channels) and decoders (the unit uses the same Motorolla 48-bit 150 MIPS decoder that is found in many high-end theaters) makes this receiver very hard to pass up -- especially when you consider that you can find it online, shipped to your home, for change over $400.

I went with it and I couldn't be happier.

Edit: I just noticed that you have the Epic 80 system, so the mains would be 4 ohm speakers. While the 1014 is only "rated" to 6 ohms, I'd assume that it could handle down to 4-ohms. If I am not mistaken, I believe that THX Specification requires that an amplifier to function under either 2 or 4 ohm loads, and I THINK that it is in fact 2. Additionally, the M80s present a very benign 4-ohm load, as 4-ohms is the lowest that the speakers dip, as opposed to other 4-ohm speakers which can dip down to 2-ohms.

Well boys I just got sacked this week. Isn't that a kick in the nuts! I just happened to get the speakers the same night. I think my receiver options will be leaning toward the more fiscally conservative type now. However I refuse to buy a piece of crap and hook it up to these speakers!

I was reading the specs about the Denon AVR-2105 and the wattage was rated at 8 ohms and it also said high current-low impedance amp design. Is this telling me you would want to avoid hooking up 4 ohm speakers to this amp?

Thank you so much for the advice and yes my friends, Sirblastalot likes to be able to hear his indoor speakers outside.

It has been recommended that the Denon's along with HK's and NAD can drive a 4 ohm load. Personally, if I were to get a 4 ohm speaker I would get a seperate amp to drive it. That is just me. I also believe the 2105 has pre-outs.

Check out the Onkyo TX-SR 601 (you can get it as low as $300). I have one and love it. There's a very postive review of it driving the M80's here, so you know it can drive 6 and 4 ohm loads. Just make sure it's not in a small confined space so it can be allowed to stay cool:

http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/onkyo_TX-SR601_review_01.html

Particularly, check out pg. 6.

-JT

sir blast,
Harman Kardon AVR 430 Don't be put off by the 65w/ch - with it's high current, I doubt you could tell the difference against a competitors 85 to 90 w/ch. Plus it has pre-outs, so you can add a separate power amp down the road.

Also, the HK AVR 525 is well proven, and I found no less than 6 on ebay.

Also:
Denon AVR 1905

in reply to:
Check out the Onkyo TX-SR 601 (you can get it as low as $300). I have one and love it. There's a very postive review of it driving the M80's here, so you know it can drive 6 and 4 ohm loads. Just make sure it's not in a small confined space so it can be allowed to stay cool:

im not trying to say you are wrong because i did check out the link. but i have the onkyo txsr600 and when i talked to someone at axiom about 6months or so ago i was pretty sure that they told me they did not recommend the m80 onkyo 600 combo but im not sure about the onkyo 601 but i would assume its ability to drive a 4 ohm load would be the same. so iwould check with axiom before buying the onkyo.

Just a side note. Even though not recommended, I am driving a set of 80's with a mid level Yamaha 6.1 receiver. I do NOT have the current limiting switch set to 4ohms - it is still set to 8. My surrounds are 4 ohm as well, but I have no centre. When the kids aren't around, I drive it very hard - it runs a little warm, but I have yet to have it shut down.

Snake, you may be right. I have mine driving a pair of m22's, so no problem there. As for driving m80's, I'm just going by what the reviewer said. It's going to be hard to find any sub-$500 receiver that's "meant" to drive a 4ohm load.

Onkyo TX-SR602 $299 at ecost
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?DPNo=449229

A friend has lent me his Yamaha DSP A1000. This has good power and sounds nice. I just went to Home Depot and bought some 14 gauge speaker wire. Then I had to go back and buy more. You should see the difference in shielding on the two spools of same brand/gauge wire. fyi, RCA "digital" 14AWG. digital ha ha. I ran the surround wire up through the attic and ran them through the back wall. I must say the speakers sound so much better when actually hooked up to an amp. This amp has a bad switch though. Crackle crackle. People that don't maintain their equipment drive me nuts. Some electronic cleaner spray should clean that up.

The suggestions on the Pioneer and Onkyo receivers are great.

The problem now is my revenue will soon run out. Would hooking up this system (Epic 80) to an HK 130 be ill advised? I know a lot is said about the low impedance load, but if you keep the volume moderate, a high-current amp should run it right? At least then I would have the option of adding additional amps for the 80's later.

I hate putting a limit on my purchases. I am used to spending a little more and buying good equipment (thus the Axiom purchase).

Will keep you posted on final purchase and results.

edit

Sirblastalot,
I have a old DSPA 1000 Amp and I have the same problem with the selector knob and I take very good care of my equipment.

Just a quick update:

Pioneer VSX-D514-K/S (low ohm capable) $159
Yamaha HTR-5730 (some weakness consumer reports) $149
Harman Kardon AVR-130 (cost more but HK) $249
Denon AVR-485S (refurbished no doubt) $186
Yamaha HTR-5450 (older model) $139

All these prices are from the ecoustics price checker. Sometimes they are out of stock, but overall ecoustics is very useful. All thoughts on these models are welcome. Note: the receiver I purchase may be temporary so I will not be shucking several hundred for one right now. If it weren't an issue I would have an HK in my living room right now.

btw koiman - What do you do about the DSP A1000 knob?

I think the HK is your safest bet. It has the same high current amp design as the higher end models so IMO is likely to work the best with M80s.

I have bought HK 130s for a couple of friend's systems -- you might find yourself happier with it than you expect. It's a pretty nice receiver.

[EDIT] Another thread just mentioned that CompUSA has really good prices on HK receivers right now -- someone mentioned $299 for an HK 230 which is a real steal. The 230 also has pre-outs so you could add an external power amp later if you felt the urge for hundreds of watts per channel

If you have an intention of using an external amp at some point...

The HK 130 does not have pre-outs. You'll need to go up to the 230 for that. I think you can get a factory refurbished direct from Harman for about $300 for the 230.

Comp Usa has the H/K 230 for $249.00 or $299.00, I dont remember for sure, but either price is a great price.

Well my friends my system is about complete. The Yamaha DSP-A1000 is sitting on the floor and the "new" receiver is in place. Here is the setup:

Axiom Epic 80 minus the subwoofer
Harmon Kardon 230-Z reconditioned from HK
Home Depot 14 gauge speaker wire, RCA brand, about a 30' run to the surrounds
Cheap gold plated banana plugs on eBay $1 each
Cheap Samsung DVD player
Digital Cable box
Really cheap audio visual stand from a school

I am happy to say this is one of the best sounding systems I have ever heard. All done as inexpensively as possible, but the money is where it counts. I follow the philosiphy that most of the money should be put into the speakers.

I spent a little more than I thought I would on the receiver. Five years from now I will be glad I spent it.

A cd or dvd changer is in my future. Just waiting for a good deal for now.

Naturally when you test run your system the all important and fun question is what music do we put in first? Since Led Zeppelin - Houses of the Holy was already in the dvd player I just went with that. Hey I was antsy, just wanted to hear something. I was actually disappointed because the vocals were hissing. You know when a band checks their PA and repeats 'check check' so the ch sound is normal. Something was wrong here.

Next cd please - Black Sabbath #1 damn that sounds good. I have heard this album 100 times. It sounds good to me whatever I play it on.

Next cd - hed PLANET EARTH - Broke. hed is a band I guess you could compare to Limp Bizkit (sp?) There is some serious bass drum and bass guitar on that cd. Wow Let's turn that up a little, a little more, a little more, is that the doorbell? When I went to hide in the bedroom suite I think the bass was even louder.

Next cd Dave Matthews Band - crash. Very very nice. Talk about being able to hear every instrument so clearly and new sounds you never heard before. I guess that's what people mean. The cymbals sound like a real cymbal. Instead of just hearing a tsk tsk tsk, you actually hear the full sound. What a great recording.

Going back to Led Zeppelin, I think the recording is just bad. I spent the day with the digital cable on the Classic Rock channel. Just listening to bands you have heard so many times before and now they sound fuller, more dynamic. Even songs I don't like are actually enjoyable.

I used the auto setup on the HK 230. I guess it works fine. I can tweak later when I'm up to it.
I have been playing all this on HK's Logic 7, music mode. I need to play around with what sounds best to me.

Naturally showing off to friends the receiver went into protection mode. Woops I was playing Northern Exposure, Expeditions - techno - basically some heavy driving bass beat, not drum or guitar, just a serious bass note. We were at -10 dB and the receiver went see ya.

I really can't complain about that cut out. That is a lot to ask of an amp. I'm just glad it didn't melt down. It seems like when I play music not too loud the receiver gets warm to the touch. Nothing major, just warm. When I play stupid loud it gets warm, not hot, warm. The Yamaha got hotter.

Time for some movies. Matrix is on HBO, crank it. You know the part where they go to rescue Morpheus and set off the metal detector with the ensuing gun battle? The HK was outstanding. You can tell they put some effort into the surround sound reproduction. I had it on logic 7, cinema - HK proprietary surround decoding. Smooth and clear. The speakers had no trouble.

I saw a post on this board with someone's HK 230 settings for music and movies. If that guy is reading this, shoot me a link to that post. please

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:
I am a bargain shopper that does not like to compromise. I have purchased a system that will blow your head off. With a steadier revenue, my receiver would be more powerful, probably multi-room capable, but if anyone wants to know if a Harmon Kardon 230-Z can power the Epic 80? Absolutely. Can you keep it at full volume with driving techno beats? No, that is asking too much. I enjoy my music because I like music and would enjoy it out of a transistor radio if that's all I had. Don't get caught up in the tech aspect too much and you will be happy with a system as cheap, or rather frugal, as this for a long time.

Cheers!

Great feedback.

My HK 230 gets so loud that my wife and kids have to leave the room when gets to about -13 on most recordings. So then I crank it up some more and I can take it to about -3 or so... I've never had any problem with it cutting out - but then all my speakers are 8 ohms. Any plans for a subwoofer? Even though you are frugal, I suspect you would find it worth your while if you could find an inexpensive high quality sub.

sirblastalot,

i wouldn' delay the new cd or dvd too much. am an uncompromising bargain hunter like you. didn't realize what i was missing w/ a "cheap" dvd player until i upgraded to an h/k dvd 22 several months back. a warmer, more open sound plus crisper video. cheers.

I OWN THE M80'S

I OWN A DENON 1602 - it's low end, worth maybe $500 USD.

they work perfectly and never shuts down, even after hours of play. no worries there mate.

Hey, congratulations on getting everything up and running. I bet that's an awesome sound you're getting. Glad you went with the 230, I think you'll be real happy with it.

One nice thing about having the M80s is that you can run without a sub for a while and still get great bass. Having said that, save up for a good sub in the future and you will be blown away yet again.