Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Final decison is Parasound

Before I report my experience with the two B&K systems and the Parasound one that I auditioned for several hours yesterday, thought I would give a bit of the back ground as to why my HTsystem has become more of an addiction lately.
Back on 12/16/05 I had a heart attack, and well being in the hospital for a few days, I made the decision, that I was going to change some priorities, and start doing more things just for me. <g> In the mid 80's I invested about $ 25k into a audio/video system, and the power system was all Tandberg, it was far from inexpensive, but I used it for over 12 years, and when I sold it in 1996, I actually had a 72% return on the original investment, and not one single problem with the system in all those years of use. I doubt this will ever happen again. <g>
Once home from the hospital and recovering, spent a lot of time researching for upgrades to the existing system, and in a week or two, started ordering new toys, the Sony 60" HDTV was the first to arrive, then the Axioms and the Outlaws.
So when I started having the Outlaw issue and it started to take more and more time to trouble shoot, I was thinking this sucks, and started to research a new power system. Here are the main requirements of the new power system that was complied over the time.

1) Budget/Quality : well not being overly wealthy, quality was going to be first, not that spending more always assures better quality.

2) Product Support : this time I wanted to avoid tech service over phones, and UPS/FedEx shipping and possible more damage to products if service was needed.

3) Multi Channel Amps: There are conflicting reports to pros/cons of 7 channel amps, but I had decided I needed separate amps this next time around, minimum was a 5 channel and a 2 channel, mono blocks were also a contender.

4) Amp Cooling: with the current set up, heat has become one of my main concerns, and have decided I want the heat sinks external to the amps.

5) Wattage: With my db listening area ranges, and future changes in speaker locations, or speaker brand changes, I wanted to have equal wattage to all 7 channels.

6) Investment/ Aesthetics: If I needed to invest a larger portion of the HT budget to the power system, than I wanted the new units to show it. <g>

7) Used/New: Because of the long term investment and warranties, e-tailers and used were eventually ruled out. I have purchased both for years on the web, and never had an issue, but since the health issues, I do try to eliminate stress as much as I can. <g>

So with the above thoughts I once again began the research of the half a dozen or so that I had in mind. Over 3 weeks of reading reviews, forums, and talking to people that have made similar investments, the search started to show that no matter which brand, I was getting into the $ 6 - 7 thousand range.

Living where I do, and not wanting to spend time driving a great distance, it was rather a limited choice as to brands. Eventually I had B&K and Parasound, as the main choices. Well B&K did not have all of the above requirements, It was looking as a good choice, especially at the cost factor, was a real bargain for the price.

I talked with B&K techs, very helpful people, and after hearing my concerns and issues with the Outlaw system, they assured me the Reference 200.7 would handle the Axiom with no problems. After hearing this, I contacted two dealers in the area, to see what models were available for audition. neither had the ones I was interested in, but did have the Reference 200.5 and the Reference 50 S2. So I figured that was close enough, and went out yesterday to take a listen.

Well it was rather a disappointment as to the speakers that were being used in both dealers auditioning rooms. Both are more of a HT selling store, and have the HT rooms built so you do not see any of the equipment or speakers. All speakers are recessed into the walls or celings, and well both used a real channel speaker and sub, these two are in the front wall to wall cabinet, behind doors with grills.

As for brand of speakers, subs, don't ask, I did not take notes as I had never heard of any of them, and as for quality of sound, this was not going to do the B&K Reference units any justice at all. Even with the speaker system it was not a waste, the Reference line was impressive, and did run very cool, but then again, no real load on then either.

So the B&K I felt would do the job, at at the $6k, was a less expensive way to go, and with B&K's reputation, felt I would have a great product. What turned be off to buying from both local dealers was:

1) Would not take even $ 1.00 off of retail price, not even on a $ 6,000 sale.

2) When I requested in writing on the sales contract that if the B&K would not handle the Axiom speaker system, both dealers backed out of the sale, stating unless they could install the B&K system, and use one of their speaker lines, they could give that kind of a return policy.

So I thanked both dealers for their time and headed home. Made a phone call to Good Guys to see if the sales person I dealt with when purchasing my 5.1 sound and the video system for my workshop that I built about 18 months ago, happened to be working. He was and told me it was no problem for me take over the Parasound auditioning room for a few hours. So grabbed about a dozen disks, one of my roomies, and off I went

First impressions when walking into the Halo room, they meant the aesthetic requirement, they look like something that would be in a professional set up, the external heat sinks are on the sides and the rear and yes, were warm to the touch well they were not even running any audio or video.

The speakers they were using for my demo time were all the Energy line, about $ 8,500 worth between the fronts, center, surrounds and rears. The Veritas i's were great looking speakers, and made a statement , the fronts were V2.3i's, surrounds/rears were the V2.ORi's, the center, V2.OCi, sub was a Velodyne PS-10.

We helped close the four sets of double glass doors, were told the Denon cd player was all set, and to feel free to run the Halo's any sound level I wanted, the sales person left the room, and that was the last we seen of him for the next two hours.

The Veritas speakers are nice speakers, just a different sound, for lack of a better word, not as forward as my M80's. The Halos performed great, and yes, they did get warmer well I ran high volumes, but not to the point that I could not touch any area of either the A51 or A21.

Was difficult to make a great evaluation of the sound quality of the Halo's after listening to the M80's for week, the Veritas were just not the same. ;-) But was good enough to sell me on the sound quality of the Halo system. Did look for the reported hum, of course it was not present.

After listening to the Halo's for over two hours, and not being able to cause a heat problem at all for the Halo's, packed up the cd's, thanked the sales person and told them I would get back to them with a decision.

Returned home, and well listening to the Axioms, went through my list of requirements, and
decided that I was going to just spend the extra amount over the B&K, and gamble on my feeling that the Parasound is what I wanted, and that I would be most happy with for all of my requirements.

Back to the store, and after an hour of talking about delivery times, and cost, managed to get them down a grand, and had it in writing that if the Halos can not drive my Axioms at the listening levels and for the run time I plan on using the system for, they will be returned for 100% refund, no questions or arguments.

Also I learned that Good Guys have 60 stores, and the A51,A21, and the C1 is the top line system for all of the stores, Parasound produces them on a need basis, so I will have a week or two wait for them to arrive. Another one of my sale term agreements was that they will contact some Halo customers and see if they are willing to call me and recommend the Halos.

I was told by the sales team in this store that yes, like any electronic equipment, Halo's do have issues, but they are solved, and they have not yet had a customer demand returning the Paraound units for another product or refund.

So I returned home less $ 9,600 of money, and now waiting for the new toys to arrive. I took some pics of the new cabinet that is still being finished up with wiring, and the pull lut shelf for the M80 center channel. Did some playing with the photos, and put the Halo set up in it to see how it will work, pics are below.

Any and all input will be appreciated, pro or con. ;-) Thanks for all the help and support over the Outlaw issue, nice to have people to talk with that have experience in this expensive hobby. ;-)

New cabinet as it is today :


With the new Halo's in place:

Haven't got a single "con" to mention.

First. I heartily support your decision "to change some priorities, and start doing more things just for (yourself)." I don't know your age, but I suspect you're somewhere in my neighborhood (59). One of the things I actually LIKE about getting older, is being just a bit more comfortable in my own skin. I've reached the point where I'm more able to forgive my weaknesses and faults. I still try to control them, and try not inflict them on others, but I've abandoned punishing myself because of them. The time left is too short to be beating myself over the head with remorse. So what you see is, pretty much, what you get.

You've gone through, to say the least, an eye opening experience. I think classifying an up close and personal encounter with your own mortality as "eye opening" is reasonable, don't you? Equally reasonable is that experience leaving you with the desire to do a bit more for yourself. I wholeheartedly agree that you should do just that.

I have long drooled over the Halos. I've never heard or seen them in action, but IMHO they are among the handsomest pieces of equipment available. I have a raging case of equipment envy.

What a wonderful experience with the store. I wish I had a place near me that would just put me in the room and then leave me on my own for two hours. And, their agreeing to take them back if you have any problems is icing on the cake. We don't have Good Guys here in Ohio. Drat!

Be sure to let us know how it goes when you get them set up and running. More pics, too.
.

Those things are gorgeous. Congrats! I really hope they work out for you.

Man, I hope I can get that zen attitude without having a heart attack! You're doing ok now?

Jack - yup, have hit the nail on the head in what you say, and ya, I'll be 55 on 6/18, so I have become a more short patience and do as I wish.

I have dealt with the Good Guys over the years and have always had a positive feeling walking out the door after a sale, and they do sell the many of the Halo's, but seldom one for a 7.1 system, so a $10k sale does get attention, and also when I walked in, they knew I was serious, and not just listening and wishing.

When I was discussing price, they had figured out that yes I loved the system, yes they were very impressive looking, and ya I wanted them. But it was going to be at my price, if not, I could walk out the door and by something else. To get that a grand off of Halos, it had to be okayed by the manager, nice guy but we started out at about an $800 differance in what I wanted to pay after thier first discount, they cane down 600, I went up 400, so when said and done, I got them for the price I wanted with sales tax. It was getting close to thier limit, as they were ready to let me leave ratehr than come down any more. Also these are not stock items, so not like they are worried about inventory tax and have to move them, they are ordered once sold, but still need to make X amount of profit.

I'm happy, they are happy, and if I have problems, they will be there for me with no bs. ;-)

Thanks for the post, and I'll update as soon as those puppies arrive and are in place.

Dennis

PS: I do strongly suggest not to even look at them at a dealer, they seem to jump out and say 'take me home" LOL

I am drooling over the right side of that cabinet!!!

I have read that the Halos get pretty warm.....have you had any heat issues?

Thanks for asking, and ya, was back to normal after about 72 hours, but to make doctors happy, took it easy for a week or so, which worked out, gave me time to research amps.

Just for peoples general knowledge, the heart attack did not even feel like what I would have expected. Had a pain in shoulders about an hour before bed, but had been doing some painitng for a neighbor, on a ladder, stretching, so the sore shoulders made sense.

About an hour and a half after going to bed, woke up, tightness in the chest, sweating, no temperature, so was getting up and headiung for the medacine cabinet for a Bayer. ;-)

One of my roomies had ran down to the puter and checked online and that confirmed it, was a heart attack. Off to the emergencxy room a few miles away. Docs all said that I had minmal damage done becasue of having the brain to do a simple thing like taking a Bayer asprin, and not delay in going to the hospital. So all in all, I was lucky, and can now go broke on Halo stuff. <g>

Curtis -

Don't have them yet, will arrive in a week or two, the pic was tweaked using Gimp software. ;-) But the demo units well warm, were not any where the temps on the Outlaw 770 when at the same volume level.

It sure looks like your gonna have yourself a hell of a set up.I really enjoy 2 M80s, it must be awsome to have 5 running plus a Ep 600.Congrats on the new gear.

I sure do wish ya well with your health.

I guess I paid more attention to the pictures than your post!

The Halos look great!!!

Thanks Rick, and right now, no one is taking my five M80's away for no reaon, and if the Halos perform as I expect, I should not have to invest money in amps or speakers again, hope not, I can't afford it. <g>

Oh no!!!!!!!

You have placed a rear ported speaker in a cabinet!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You shouldnt ever put a speaker in a cabinet! Not even an M2, especially not an M80.

Easy Snippy! I believe the center M80 is on a pull out shelf which gets it out of the cabinet when in use. Thou shalt not jump to conclusions.

... unless the cabinet is rear ported as well

Looks like you have the right setup this time. It's obvious the Parasounds are the right choice from the way they fit in the cabinet; it was obviously designed for them.

Actually you are correct, the shelf is not finished yet, just had the cabinet to the point I could bring it in from the garage and start getting the piceces in it and wires secured in place.

You guys are way to smart, yes, I will be porting th cabinet as well, and this way I have it covered, if it needs to be pulled out for any reason, will be easy to do, and if the porting of the cabinet works as expected, the M80 can just sit in the cabinet and not need to be pulled out.

In case any one misses the post, the Halos are not here yet, will be a week or two, the pic of them in place was just a cut and paste job to give me an idea as to how they will look, its to sacle so should look like the picture.

The Halos actually measure out to 17-1/4" in width, like most components do. So they will still have about 2" of clearence on eash side to the wood.

Hmmmmm, even though the Parasound's are not what I would call a "Hot" running amp, I would suggest tweaking your ventilation a bit. Even 2 small fans at the rear just to move a little more air would be a good idea. I would also never have that fireplace on when the gear is running!

At the end of the day, you know my view on the Parsound's........I think you went the right way and you will not be disappointed. I'm not sure if my pro Parasound ramblings via PM helped or hindered you but I hope I was of some help!

Post back when you get everything up and running and please...........................tweak the ventilation just a little! :-)

John -
Yes your PM's were a big help in making my final decision, and I thank you again. After seeing and hearing them, there was not much questions left, except, how do I pay for them. <g>

I built the new cabinet, and have made plans to add a vent in the bottom of the access door for the side where the amps will live, and fans will be added. the cabinet still has things to finish up, lost last week because of the 770 stuff, so will get the cabinet finished up this week before the Halo kids arrive.

:-) Excellent and I'm glad to hear it!

Forgot to mention, the C2 includes the MX-700 and sidekick, perhaps Ray will come over and take care of the programing. <g>

Looking forward to pics man!

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C2 includes the MX-700 and sidekick, perhaps Ray will come over and take care of the programing.

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Cue Foley sound of door slamming, car starting and then peeling out while medium shot of room shows chair in front of computer spinning wildly and loose papers flying off the computer desk in the direction of the rooms' door. Cue also music bed of "Keystone Cops-type" of piano track.

Don't know if Ray would come over, but he'd be glad to talk to you about it on the phone. He's done that for a number of MX-700 newbies. It's a great remote. If you haven't done so already, you should download the MX Editor software, MX Editor tutorial, and the manuals for the both remotes (they can be found here), and begin reading and fooling with the software. It'll give you a good idea of what the thing can do.

WOW!!!

that is just a big beautiful wall of 'show-off'

but i aint jealous or nothin'.

great looking system, and i would bet its a great sounding one also. glad you were able to find some amps to your liking. very visually spectacular. two thumbs WAY up.

bigjohn

I have the BBQ ready to go.

Thanks for the link, was on the page last night and down loaded the software. I have to many remotes now, picked up the Harmony 680 a few weeks ago, works well, even had no problem with commands for the fireplace.
But does have a few things I'm not totally happy with, without a light on in the room, rather a pain to use, and the buttons are close together.

Will see if I like the MX-700 better, if so, will put the Harmony on eBay, I always do good selling my surplus stuff on eBay.

Speaking of, there is a good buy that ends in a few hours, a B&K Reference 50 S2 and Reference 200.7 if I had not used all of my reserve cash, may have picked it up and resold it, could have made a few bucks.

I find the ergonomics of the MX-700 to be very intuitive. Everything seems to be in just about the right place. Now that I'm used to the button layout, I rarely have to use the back-light on the remote to find what I want.

There have been justifiable complaints about the the center button on the joystick, and, in fact, the new models (850 and 650) have an improved button in that position now. Should that particular button give you problems, just duplicate it's function on the "ENT" (for "enter") button in the bottom right corner of the remote. I find it useful in some circumstances to use that button rather than the center joystick button. YMMV

Thanks for the info Jack, will see how it works. But it may be a few days before I bother with the remote, its not going to be
the foremost toy for a while. Anxious to see of the Halo's solve the heat issue I have had for weeks.

Thanks John, but you have a great looking system as well, and for a couple of bucks, I can cut and paste the pic of your HT system and you to will have Paraounds.

I will be waiting for Halo's to arrive, a bit anxious to see how they work.

Dennis - I just sent you an email at the address posted here on the board. If you could take a look that would be great.

Thanks,

Doug

Just an update, having problems with getting a confirmed delivery date from the Good Guys, so after a few calls, called Parasound up inSF, and well talking to the person, asked me which speakers I had, and he even knew what I was talking about when I mentioned M80's.

I know have a name and number of a rep to call if I have ANY kind of a problem once I get the Halos.

You're right Ajax about taking care of #1,that's why I went out and bought 2004 Lexus ES 330 yesterday.It's like new ,only has 9800 miles on it.My wife was not too happy at first but she's coming around.I'm 70 so I figure 10/15 more good years and then I won't care what I drive.

Frank, you're makin, me feel like a youngster! Good for you. Enjoy that car.

I've long coveted the Lexus 300 (now the 330). I've often thought of getting a used one, but the only used one I could afford would be a 1970 model, and there aint' no such animal. Oh well. Next life maybe.

In reply to:

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I know have a name and number of a rep to call if I have ANY kind of a problem once I get the Halos.

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You won't have problems but in the event you do, let me know and I will put you in touch with the main man from Parasound for North America and or the head tech.........can you tell I have owned Parasound stuff? lol

Thanks will do. Just returned from getting a refund from Good guys. Calling another dealer in the morning, she has promised delivery within two days, so hopefully will be picking up the those puppies Thursday evening

Dennis, reading your profile and is shows your speakers are finished in black cherry. You mean boston cherry with black grills right? Either that or you managed to pull off a deal with axiom and create your own unique colour.

ummmmmm........no, I'm not that important to Axiom, black, boston, both started with 'b' so I was close. LOL

Thanks for correcting me, just to much going on lately I guess, or I'm getting older than I remember.

Mmm black cherry pic-a-pop...

Oops, my age is showing.

Bren R.

Just some info for Axiom owners living in CA, CompUSA is the parent compnay of Good Guys, so this will be my last dealing with them, explains the bs stories about Parasound making units on a per order basis. Parasound has a warehouse full of them 60 miles north of one of Good Guys store, but by the time the paper work goes through corporate in Dallas, Texas, then the distributor, takes 2- 8 weeks to receive the uinits.

So found another Parasound dealer and going with them

Okay, if any one is interested, just re-ordered from a dealer 70 miles north of me. This nice sales lady felt sorry for me as the 3 big boxes will not fit the either the 35oZ or GT Mustang, and is going to deliver them here, the new toys are to be here Thursday evening, so could be a late night.

Okay, if any one is interested, just re-ordered from a dealer 70 miles north of me. This nice sales lady felt sorry for me as the 3 big boxes will not fit the either the 35Z or GT Mustang, and is going to deliver them here, the new toys are to be here Thursday evening, so could be a late night.

hmmmm......she felt sorry for you because you have a 350Z, Mustang GT, and are getting Halos?

Something is not right here......

Sorry about the double post, not sure if it was an in house issue, or a server along the line, but I didn't get the confirmation screen that the message had been sent, ready for a trip to Disneylad to get away from the stress here.

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get away from the stress here

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yea, all that stress from your big beautiful house, with your 5 new M80's and the EP600 sub. powered by a rack of brand new parasound amps, which you almost had to carry in your new mustang Z, that goes 0-60 in a little over 5 seconds.. yea, stress?

i got no sympathy for ya!!

bigjohn

It's a tough crowd here, isn't it Dennis? Ya just can't get any sympathy.

None from me.
I've had some kind of flu bug for 3 days now, and besides not eating, I find NO enjoyment in my HT system.
However the toilet is a different story.

Jack,
As my father used to say to me when I was a teenager, "if you want sympathy, you'll find it in the dictionary between sh$t and syphilis"! I am sure I'll pass that gem on to my son when he is old enough to appreciate it...

how bout the price same? cheaper? more?
Jake

Yup, can see I'm not going to get any one feeling sorry for me.

Was nearly the same price, so have the dealers down to a minimum profit, I know the dealer cost because of a confidential source, but the nice sales person, sold them to me for $ 9,600 with tax out the door, but now that includes delivery, about $ 64 less than Good Guys, so I'm getting a sweet deal I think.

Was gambing on the numbers for tax returns fromthe CPA this week, and just got them a few hours ago, so basically Uncle Sam and the state of CA paid for them, but unlike the local CA Axiom family, they won't have the enjoyment of a BBG party and hearing the system.

Was just reading another post about mounting a VP100, it reminded me, since Axioms items are not to be sold on the forum, I will do this. I have the FMB in white that I used for the Vp150, but since replacing it with the M80, I have no use for the FMB, and rather than put it on a shelf and then forget about it for years, I will donate it to anyone in need of it. Hope this does not violate any forum regs.

First PM/email gets it.

FMB,what is that,I could use a stand for my 150, if thatt is what you're refering to..

The fmb(full metal bracket) is meant to mount your speakers on the wall.

Sorry, should have been more clear, was a late night. It is one of the Axiom Full Metal Brackets for mounting the Qs's and the VP's.

Almost beat ya to the answer.

You gotta be quicker on the draw baby.

Could be a Tracy/Fresno thing, or the rain.

Halos are closer, just had a call and they are at the dealer, so should be here tomorrow evening after 7pm. [tounge]

Real pictures this time!

Yes Jack, real pictures, they are suppose to be inclosed in a purple like color velvet protective covers, so plan on lots of pics for the future web page.

Well guys, the new pups are paid for and its a done deal. Minor detail, a schedule confict, and Michelle may not be able to deliver them, so a good neighbor is loaning me a Durango, and I will be driving north to fetch them home, and should have ample room for them to be comfy.

Tharkun, did you ever consider KRELL? it would have cost you about the same amount of cash for 1 KRELL, no? how does Parasound compair?


btw, enjoy you'r new toys

Researched them on the web, same issue I had with a couple of the brands I was looking at, not able to get a 5 & 2 channel with the same wattage at 4ohms, and I did not want to go with another single 7 channel unit. So kinda kept going back to the Halos, along with other criterion..

bla, no pictures yet.......


slacker, probably enjoying you'r new amps aren't you....

hurry up already.

Just got back and they are in the house, good thing I had a Chevy Tahoe to use, raterh filled it up with the rear seats down. Off to start opening the kids up.

faster faster

Unboxed and all appear to be in perfect condition good. Re-sizing some pics to post right now.

Unlike the others, I say your priorities are screwed up. Get the things running before you take and post any pictures! Forget us!

No kidding. Hook em up, tweak em, listen for a bit..... then take the pictures.

Some quick pictures, then back to getting them into the cabinet.

In the Tahoe



Mountain Bottle to give an idea as to the height of the amp boxes.



Halos in the house



Halo stack front



Halo stack rear




Thats the progress so far, have the cabinet emptied, and ready to start putting the kids into thier new home, bbl.

geez those are pretty!

ya, they are rather sweet looking, reading some of the manuals to make sure I don't screw something up. LOL

But like I think, pictures don't do justice to the Axioms, same with the Halo, really need to see them in person.

Why are there cooling fins on your toaster ovens?

Bren R.

Hopefully to keep from popping thermals ?

NICE!

Just got two channel stereo working, and roomies are sleeping so can not turn it up much, but if this is any sign, these are not the same M80's I had a few hours ago on the Outlaw 770.

WOW, those are GINORMOUS!!!

super sweet. ME JEALOUS!!!

my wife would put a bullet straight thru my fore-head if i walked in the door with boxes that big of stereo equipment. and she wouldnt miss, she is a hell of a shot!!

bigjohn

bigjohn - there are TWO of those being shipped to you as I type this. Please give Shannon a copy of the email notification.

On a more serious note - those things look great!

Damn those are nice. Too bad they cost so much, they were twice as much as my entire audio system.

Did you look at any one the Sunfire amps? They seem pretty nice too. The Cinema Grand Signature 400 X 7. It is 800 watts at 4 ohms X 7, that would be just enough power for me.

humina humina humina. Er, um, I, uh...

Wow. That marble floor is really something. Did you do that yourself? Felker or MK? Float the floor or CBU?

Oh yeah, those silver boxy things look pretty neat, too.

Thank you very much for sharing your journey. I wish you many happy years enjoying that wonderful system in your beautiful home.

toms just tryin to suck-up, to get the first invite to the BBQ party!!

bigjohn

Thanks for the compliments Tom, had bids to do the 1,400 sq ft, was looking at $ 12k for labor. Purchased a new MK100, a few other tools, so in the floor about $5k for tools and materials. Since CA houses have a concrete floor, just adjusting anything with thinset, have it about 3/4 done, its a side project.
Of course its on hold, since the HT project, and may be a while before going back to it. LOL

LOL Good one bigjohn, everyone that can make is invited.

Still working on getting these puppies all connected, interconnects are going to be to short, so going to get a rush order for new ones, as soon as I can decide which brand to go with. Well working having been using just 2 hannel stereo, but is sounding like a ratehr substantil improvment in sound quality.

Will wait a week or two till I can make a more objective opinion on the Halo's and post my opinions and thoughts.