Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Axiom Subs

How does the 350 stack up against subs like a paradigm ps 1000 or maybe a klipsch,velodyne or.....


any non biased reviews out there?

i have never done a direct comparison but i have heard tons of subs.

i don't like the klipsch subs, they jsut sound bad - they don't go very deep either.

velodyne's seem boomy to me and chuff a lot

paradigm's - don't remember, but i think i remember liking them

the ep350 is a fine sub but i hear the ep500 is a very nice upgrade.

the only other sub company out there you forgot about was SVS - they make good subs for good prices

I like my 350, can't comment on the others. The 500 and 600 was not out when I got my 350, otherwise I may have upgraded. A lot depends on your room size, etc....

HSU and SVS, would be others I would consider as well....you can get a lot for the money, but the Axioms are very good as well..

Before the EP500 and EP600 arrived, the HSu and SVS models were always touted as being a better deal than the Axiom subs. Since their arrival, that's not been the case so much. Granted, the EP500/600's are considerably more expensive now as well, but from everything I've been hearing their serious subwoofers.

If that's too rich though, I'd look at the Hsu offerings...especially the VTF-3 MKII.

I had a Klipsch KSW 12, actually I still have it, just loaned it to my brother-in-law so he can terrorize his downstair neighbors. It performed ok for HT, as long as you don't drive it too hard. Didn't like it for music. Not very well defined bass. You can get much better for the money. I now have a Hsu sub, and the difference is amazing. I felt the 10" Hsu outperformed the 12" Klipsch for both music and movies.

I've only got experience with 2 subs, one of which you asked about. I demo'd a velodyne DLS-4000R (12"er) for a couple weeks and found it to be boomier than I thought a good sub should be. Based on input from the great and knowledgable guys on this board I looked and HSU and SVS. I decided to purchase the 10" SVS (PB10-ISD). It is much tighter than the velo and has great SPL's and oomph for my relatively small room (11x16x7). I'm sure HSU's are equally good.

There has certainly been a lot of good comments about the relatively new Axiom EP500, but I think a lot of it is from looking at the great spec.s and freq. plot. Does anyone know of any (or many) direct comparisons with other subs (notably the SVS or HSU's)?

What is the size of your room?

Paul

I'm wondering if the 500 would be overkill for my room, my room at least for now, is only 11x18x8.

We are looking at getting a newer larger home, so that could easily change any day now. The Paradigm 1000 is about 700 bucks

I'm just wondering for the price of the axiom 350 sub, if I'd be better off getting a paradigm or something.

the axiom 500 is a little steep for just a sub imho.

In reply to:

---

...for just a sub...

---

You've never had a good sub before. I used to think the same thing.

Seriously...if the EP500 is too pricey, look at the Hsu VTF-3 MKII.

Newf
I used to think the same - how important could a sub really be, it only fills in the very bottom end of the music range? But then I never owned one till a couple weeks ago and I'd never listened to HT movies with one.

If you are planning on using the sub for much HT movie watching, especially action movies with lots of bang, crash and explosions, get a good sub. The experience is amazing. I'm so happy I got one and am kind of wishing (even for my small room), I'd got a bigger one. I think I'm coming down with a case of upgraditous already. Time will tell.

I liked the idea of having matching finishes for all my speakers, so I went with the 350, and may get a second 350 once I move downstairs. Anyway, if you do take the Axiom route, I would order from the Factory Outlet that they offer on their Store page, you'll get 10% off the regular already low price. If you order 5 or more items, you get another 5%, not bad...

As much of a difference as my sub made with movies, what impressed me more was music. I was expecting a lot of ooompf with the movies, but the added depth and fullness to music was a very pleasant surprise.

Yup, I have certainly noticed and enjoy the fuller sound of the music the sub provides. I expect with more time I'll feel the same way.

Having owned a sub (actually the complete 5.1 system) for just over a week (and not knowing anyone else that has one), I was really surprised by the subs output when viewing a couple movies I'd watched before I owned the sub (e.g. Darla tapping on the aquarium in Finding Nemo and some scenes in Flight of the Phoenix).

It's all fun and my ears are happier than they ever have been thanks to Axiom and you guys. To think I almost bought a little HTIB for only a few hundred less. Thank goodness I found Axiom and this board first.

In reply to:

---

Thank goodness I found Axiom and this board first

---

its almost like therapy, eh?

when i decided to build my HT, i had already decided that i wasnt gonna get a HTIB, but i wasnt sure of anything else. while doing research on the internet, i kept seeing stuf written about this little canadian company called axiom. after asking some questions and spending some time on this board, i went ahead and bought mine without ever even hearing them.. and that was kinda scary.. but, i was/am totally pleased, and truly feel i got the best bang for my buck with axioms. now all i have to do is convince EVERYONE i know to buy an axiom HT.

bigjohn

ok, darn internet, somethings come across wrong to easily.
I am not doubting the importance of a good sub. I am not new to speakers, and home theater and such.

I guess I should have said, if I am going to spend the money on a 350, or a 500, perhaps there is another better alernative that will still match to the m80's, vp-150/q8's.

I know how important a sub is, and I know I want and need a very good one, which is why I am asking if the axiom is good enough.

I hate not being able to hear these things in person....arg.

With a sub, you really don't need to worry so much about a "match". It produces LFE and that's all it does so the timbre matching isn't an important consideration.

An EP500 is an awful lot of sub for the room you are in. I agree with spiff - an HSU VTF3 or and SVS PB-12 ISD (or 20-39 PCi) gives you a great sub at a reasonable price that will grow with you .

I use the 20-39 PCi in a 16x22x10 room and still have plenty of sub left.

The EP500 will absolutely do the job for you, but the other alternatives will have the added advantage of saving you some money as well.

You can't really make a mistake with any of the subs I've mentioned. Unless, of course, you invite Ajax or MarkSJohnson over to listen with you!!

Pick the sub you like and abuse the credit card with confidence.

Ray, I think you hit the nail on the head.

Your room is just slightly larger than mine. My 10" is more than enough except on the absolute loudest LFE passages when I have a movie cranked pretty loud. If cost is a real concen, you might want to consider a quality 10" sub (HSU or SVS are highly toughted).

Oh, that's right you are looking forward for when you will be in a larger room. Ok, a 12" is better (unless you like the idea of 2 subs). HSU has a B-stock waiting list that gets you 20% off (new sub but a cosmetic blemish). That would put the price of a STF-3 at $480 or a VTF-3 at $560. Don't know how long it takes to bubble up to the top of the list. A call might give you an idea. SVS also has B-stock, but you have to check frequently as they list items till they sell and it changes daily (or even hourly). I have no idea how much they take off the MSRP.

Damn that seems cheap. Wish I knew that when I was looking.

Paul

$560 for a VTF-3 MKII is like stealing.

hey spiff....I have an idea if you want to get Roger really mad.

har har...My VTF-2 is quite enough right now.

it would be easier to sneak in the VTF-2MKII under the radar than the Denon 2900.

It would be easier to sneak the VTF-3 MKII in than the Denon...but I'm not that kind of guy. I don't like sneaking around. I'm going to get my butt kicked, but at least I'll do it without lying or sneaking around.

Though you're very tempting...a VTF-3 MKII would sit in the same exact spot as my current sub. We've usually got a blanket or something draped over top anyways....

NO...no...not gonna' do it!

Curtis you're a bad influence!

so the vtf is better then the ep-350 I take it


hmmm

Think I found a Canadian deal too...

Yeah! Yeah! The blanket COULD work. This sounds like a plan. Of course, you could confuse Roger and shift his attention with a clever diversion and he might never notice the Denon 2900 or the VTF-3.

Hmmmm - what would work? It would need to be devastatingly powerful....

I'VE GOT IT!!!! - a new MX-700 remote. Yeah, that's the idea. Another sunny California day saved!

Geeezzz,
And I was starting to worry about you!
What has it been? Three or four weeks since your last MX whatever Hocus Pocus?
Praise the Stars, all is right with the world.

Or OUR world, anyway...!


TjB

I originaly was dead set on the EP350 but I guess now I have t take a look at the SVS PB12 and the HSU STF-3. I might have to consider the VTF-3 but I think that extra $100 is better spent on a Denon 2105 or Marantz 8400.

I take it that SVS and HSU options are much better option than EP350. Only thing is if I don't get the EP350, might have to go with all black for M60, QS8, and VP100. I kinda like it to all match.

My black sub matches the black grills on the Boston cherry speakers quite nicely IMHO.

i was also set on getting the 350. But then I realized what they were asking for it compared to other well known good subs. i think the axiom subs are a little over priced imho. Strange considering their prices of everything else.

I haven't made up my mind yet but the HSU VTF-3 MK2 is apparantly comparable to the ep-500 (yet much cheaper), not the 350 which is comparable to the stf-3, according to the dealer I have talked to. Keep in that is just one opinion.

A "B" stock VTF-3 MKII at under $600 is really your best option (price/performace wise)

I also have Boston Cherry speakers, and an all black VTF-2. It really doesn't clash. Besides, an all black sub is really less conspicuous. It doesn't draw attention to itself at all.

I tried so hard and could not find a link to the 'B-Stock' of HSU and SVS. Can anyone help an audio buyer out? Thanks.

For SVS B-stock, try here.

Not much there right now.

WhatFurrer

re: Hsu B stock. You need to email/call them.

trying to find out about the b stock now for the hsu.

That being said i wish there was some flexibility on the ep-500 sub. It gets good reviews, and ideally i would like a matching set. But it's overpriced.

how does the paradigm pw-2200 compare to the ep-350? anyone?

I don't know that I'd say it is over priced. The response curve is near ruler flat and it achieves pretty deep Hz's and the SPL's it produces are huge. To achieve that with subs doesn't come cheap. The only flexibility is you can save $210 by going factory outlet and ordering it with the rest of your Axiom order. And remember, shipping costs are included.

yes, it's impressive, but when you can get something similar for near 500 less.....

that's say it all there.

too bad Axiom couldn't realize that I'll be the only one on this side of the island that could easily audition the 500 to potential customers
hint hint!

>>yes, it's impressive, but when you can get something similar for near 500 less.....

Emphasis on *something*

The question is whether the EP500 is closer in performance to the 20-39PCi (which is ~500 less) or the 20-39PC+ / PB12+ (which are about the same price as EP500 once you figure shipping, taxes and brokerage).

Based on power and specs I would put the EP500 in line with the PC+, not the PCi, so I would also argue that the EP500 is not overpriced.

Now, does Axiom *have* anything positioned directly against the SVS PCi ? No, the closest is EP350 which is its equal in some ways but not others. On the other hand the EP350 is nicer finished, matches the rest of the Axioms, and some reviews seem to think it is better for music than the SVS (although I have to admit I'm a bit dubious about this "musical sub" thing).

If you're in the EP350 price range there is serious competition but the EP500 seems to hold its own better. I wouldn't be surprised to see a slightly upgraded EP350 at some point (and no I don't have any inside info).

As far as HSU goes. Give them a call. They will let you know what they have in stock for B-stock. Which by the way according to the good Doctor, Dr. Hsu, the B's in some ways are better because they go through a more rigorous set of tests before they are resold than the new models do. I was lucky enough to get to see this process when I went down to LA to buy mine. Pretty cool

I just placed the order for the vtf-3. I'm just waiting on confirmation.

It seems to be an awesome sub. I would have liked to get the 500, but it's alittle beyond my reach.

So, now I have to order the m80's and it's little friends....

This is where I start to get excited I love new toys

bray has the VTF-3, and man, is it a LOAD. that is one BIG sub, that puts out amazing amounts of LFE's. i think you will be rather pleased with its performance!!

bigjohn

yeah I hope it's as nice as everyone says it is

I just ordered the 80's as well. I was going to order everything but I figured I want to try the 80's, see what kind of sound they have and if I like, I'll order the rest. I won't be ordering 5 pieces now anywaysn since I got the sub elsewhere, so i won't be getting the 5% off.

Now, I won't sleep until they get here...too excited. then my neighbors won't sleep once they do get here

2 m80's - 1 vp150 - 2 QS8 = 5 pieces = 5% discount

if they ship you 5 things you get a discount. The sub would of made 6 pieces. But if you already ordered the m80, you can order like 2 tee-shirts or something and get 5% off you order when you do get the other components.

I don't see in your posts what your going to be driving the system with, do you have something that will drive the 4ohm 80's?

nautec

yeah, I think I'm drunk again.

Your right. For some reason I was thinking the two fronts counted as one unit.

Anyways, I'll just order some cables or something when I order the rest and it'll be fine. Need the cables anyways. the other thing Iwas thinking is worse case scenario...and I don't like the m80's. It's a lot cheaper to send back just two speakers then the entire set. If I like the m80's, chances are the rest will be ok and I'll get em.


As for amp, I have Carver power amps right now that are more then capable of 4 ohms.

I will be buying a new reciever in the next few months to power all this. I wanted to get the speakers 1st, then match the reciever. I never had a lot of choices of speakers to get, but amps I do.

I bought the ep350 for 2 reasons.

1. It matched everything else in my room. I just couldn't get a black sub.

2. I've never seen any posts stating the ep350 was a bad sub. Most people say it is a good sub. It just seems most feel that the SVS or HSU gives you a better performance/price ratio.

I'm sure there are many who prefer the sound of the HSU or SVS and that price never was an issue. I've been happy with the ep350 even though I haven't heard what the other subs sound like. The ep500/600 weren't out yet when I bought my set and I'll most likely upgrade to one of those before the year is out.

Very pleased with my EP500. Even at low levels I get musical responsiveness. I hope Axiom comes out with a remote control for it. I like to change levels and volume with dvd vs music.

oh, I am not saying that the 350 is a bad sub. Heck, i haven't even heard it.

One one review I read said it wasn't the best for music. but the again, I could hardly find any reviews on the 350. now the 500 i did find reviews on and that seems to be one sweet sub.

It's like this, I don't get to buy speakers very often just like many men with a woman in the house. I was given the go ahead to get the speakers and this was something I was not going to waste and something that isn't going to come around again any time soon. so, I want to make sure I get everything right the first time

The 350 may have well suited my needs. heck the HSU may be overkill for my room. But i didn't want to take the chance. If I could have auditioned at least the 350 before hand it would have been a different story. I do like the finish(s) better, and the front sub may even have worked better. But, I am the type of person that is very picky with bass. I am also the type of person that if there is a better model, it kills me for no logical reason, and I must have it. This is the reason why I got the 80's, even though I am sure the 60's would do just fine or at least fine in my house now ( the new home will be bigger). If I had gotten the 350 knowing already that the hsu was defintely better and only less then 200 more it would have drove me nuts. At least now i have a sub I won't need to replace for both psychological and sound reasons

that being said, I still have another room I'll need 2 speakers and a sub for down the road. Perhaps I'll order the 350 then, but that's along ways away.


Man, I'm bored. I can't stand waiting for things to show up in the mail. My 80's won't be here until maybe wednesday, and I'm going nuts all ready and it's only been 24 hrs since I ordered them.

Must check tracking numbers again, and again, and again.... I think it makes the package get here faster somehow