Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Dead woofer on an M80Ti...

Had the day off so it was one of those oh well with the neighbors day and it was my time to crank the 80s and Rotel. At 107 dbs I noticed a crackel coming out of my right speaker and upon further examination I noticed the botton woofer seemed to be a gonzo, nothing but a crackle.

Callled Axiom and another woofer for the 80 is on it's way...hopefully this will cure the problem. I had visions of a bad Rotel but I'm thinking the new driver will solve this issue.

[edit] btw, was listening to Van Halen's 'Fair Warning'....paybacks are a um, uh MFer guys!!

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'Fair Warning'

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told you it ws a bad one!!

hope you get the woofer replaced, and in working condition in no time.

bigjohn

See, you get new toys and just have to break them !

Sorry to hear you had a problem, your luck is like mine, if a defective product is available, I get it.

I really consider this to be a minor incident...the folks at Axiom are awesome and I have faith that the speaker will be as good as new in no time!

I do think a 'proper' break-in is a must for any product purchased and stuff happens, it's the customer support and addressing these sorts of problems that make one company head and shoulders above another. Axiom, in my estimation is head an shoulders above everybody!

Love the 80s though!

If you turn up your speakers that loud, i would be expecting them to break.
If you turn them up that loud too often, i doubt Axiom will continue replacing drivers for free. I suggest a modicum of caution in deciding just how loud one's speakers can get.
Driving my M60s in stereo from a 100W receiver resulted in clipping beginning around 104dB at about 8 feet.
Those going beyond those relative SPL at greater distances are chancing breaking their speakers. With enough power, the cones will hit their physical excursion points. Without enough power, you chance frying a driver.
Take your pick.

Ian and Alan likely know just how loud at a specified distance their speakers can attain, but i doubt they will tell their customers for fear ppl will try to hit those maximums with the erroneous idea that they should be capable of such feats consistently and in any environment.

Maybe it's your expectations Chess for a pair of 80s to start brekaing apart at 100+ dbs but it's not mine nor is it Axioms after discussing this problem with them in detail.

With that said, the conclusion was a defective driver and nothing else.

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Ian and Alan likely know just how loud at a specified distance their speakers can attain, but i doubt they will tell their customers for fear ppl will try to hit those maximums with the erroneous idea that they should be capable of such feats consistently and in any environment.

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You are right in the that these folks do know how far their speakers can go, but you are wrong in that they keep it a secret though....I was told today what these speakers can do and believe me brother, I was'nt even close to tearing them up with my system.

Good day, chess.

80s powered by Rotel.

I had a similar problem with the midrange driver on my 60's. Got a new driver and all is well. But when I opened my speaker up I found the connections at the back of the driver were just loose enough to cause an issue. I crimped the connector just a bit and it fit much tighter and there was no more problem. So now I have a nice spare midrange. Sweet.

You might want to check the connections just in case.

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had a similar problem with the midrange driver on my 60's. Got a new driver and all is well. But when I opened my speaker up I found the connections at the back of the driver were just loose enough to cause an issue. I crimped the connector just a bit and it fit much tighter and there was no more problem. So now I have a nice spare midrange. Sweet.

You might want to check the connections just in case.

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Thanks, I'll give it a look since the driver needs to come out anyway!

Just happened to come across this last night :

TomMystery,

Real80sMan is correct. We quote the M80ti's power handling very conservatively. They will handle up to 1200 watts per channel (clean power, no clipping) without damage. There is no internal fusing of the drivers.

The M80s will mate beautifully with the Bryston 4B amp. That is the amp we used for years at the National Research Council in Ottawa for double-blind listening tests. It is also where listening tests and anechoic measurements on Axiom prototypes are conducted.

Regards,

Alan Lofft
Axiom Resident Expert

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Just happened to come across this last night :

TomMystery,

Real80sMan is correct. We quote the M80ti's power handling very conservatively. They will handle up to 1200 watts per channel (clean power, no clipping) without damage. There is no internal fusing of the drivers.

The M80s will mate beautifully with the Bryston 4B amp. That is the amp we used for years at the National Research Council in Ottawa for double-blind listening tests. It is also where listening tests and anechoic measurements on Axiom prototypes are conducted.

Regards,

Alan Lofft
Axiom Resident Expert

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Thanks Dennis, this is exactly what I was told today by the folks at Axiom.

Think I also mentioned to you that the M80 are tested at Axiom for 100 hours at 1,000 watts, this info also came from Axiom members. Learned a lot about the 80s since having the Outlaw issue.

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Think I also mentioned to you that the M80 are tested at Axiom for 100 hours at 1,000 watts, this info also came from Axiom members.

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Actually Tharkun i was the one who posted this information after my tour of the Axiom Factory. I got to see the M80s being pushed by 700W of Bryston power. There is a picture of it but sadly no video.

As for the other comments, play all the loudness you want. It is your equipment, but akin to the many car analogies, who here runs their little Honda at 80mph but only in 1st gear?
Pushing any speaker (or mechanical unit) has limits. When it comes to speakers and power, too little is far worse than too much but if anyone here has heard a speaker hit its excursion point, the dull flapping noise does not make anything sound at all pleasurable.
Even still, just because you can plug a speaker into 1000W of power doesn't mean that cranking it up until the cones bottom out won't cause damage. Axiom tests them absolutely, but to assume no breakage will ever occur is foolish.

I've seen reports on the forums that Axiom speakers play anywhere from 95dB maxed out to near 120dB. The sheer power alone required to hit those levels given the relative efficiencies of the M80s is HUGE. I begin to doubt some of these anecdotal reports for obvious reasons.
Stating general opinions like "Axioms will handle 1000W of power, no worries, go nuts" is not good advice, and for any newbie that reads this thread, they should think about that carefully!
107dB at what? 100 feet?
But the speakers weren't breaking apart?

Speaker companies are not obligated to honour warranties in situations where they feel excessive abuse has occurred. I'm not saying anyone here has been abusive although it appears some have taken it that way. The reported sound levels (distance information missing) make one wonder what ppl are doing that they need volumes that loud and further reporting they need a driver fixed after playing such loud levels again makes one wonder if the driver would have been fine had it not been subjected to 'near red line' levels.
I have a 400w amp that might be loaned to me in the next couple of weeks. If that happens, i will report on whether my M60s hit an excursion point or whether the amp runs out of juice first. I've seen speakers hit their physical limits at alot less. I will also record the SPL and distances measured.
Simply reporting i might do such a thing openly on these forums will certainly invalidate my warranty if i'm to call Axiom for a driver repair afterward and Axiom has the right to do so.

Yikes Chess!

ass-ump-tions ...

[edit]OK, that was harsh, but so was the tone of your original smackdown. Chances are this was simply a defective driver whose defect was never detected at lower volumes. Axioms's word is the final one, and they've chosen to cover it under warranty.

I don't have an SPL meter, so perhaps there's something simple that I don't understand, but when you guys are quoting dB output, are you referring to peak (instantaneous) output, or like some average over some timeframe? Just curious.

When playing music, the figure quoted is usually an eyeballed average SPL. The analog Radio Shack SPL meter can give instantatoeus readings (the needle is very jumpy and hard to read) or slower, damped readings (the needle moves in a more controlled fashion). The former is handy for measuring peaks, the latter is better for averages.

Peter I was using the Radio Shack digital SPL on fast response, the peak db was 107 at a close 7 feet. I was averaging 95-100....a level where the 80s are more than adequate with what I'm using for power.

I agree 100% Bob.

My previous tests of the quoted 104dB were sustained levels (an avg) at about 8-10 feet (i can't quite recall off the top of my head but it is in the Slew of 7 speakers thread).
My big Tannoys were rated with a max SPL at 114dB although the brochure never mentioned at what distance. I'm assuming it might be at the std for measure which is 1m. The loudest they ever recorded was 107dB at 12 feet driven by a 200w Coda amp, Class A into the first 20w. I would be shocked if the Axioms could get beyond the output of those cabinets (90lbs a piece and 10 inch drivers).

On any given night, our M60s will play at 85-97dB (10 foot distance) for movies with only the Onkyo driving them. I can get clean output somewhere slightly beyond 104 sustained when i use my Anthem amp instead of the receiver but the numbers allude me at the present.
I have never intentionally tried to drive any of my speakers to their physical limits but we did manage this accidentally with a friend's set of Tannoy Saturn S6s and the Anthem amp.

In any event, they are all very VERY loud for a typical listening distance b/w 8-15 feet.

Thanks guys. I have no intention of turning this into "decibel wars" but maybe I'll get an SPL meter just to see what level loud is to me.

Given Axiom rates the M80s to handle 400 watts,at 95 db at 1 meter the peak spl they should be able to reach is 124 db using this spl calculator or am I missing something.

Well if I use that calculator, I should be running my system between 112-118 for the listening area. lol

Dennis actually I typically listen more in the 85 or so db range, today I was running the Rotels and the 80s at a constant 97-100 db level for a couple of hours to check everything out.
Wife said she thought the driver was making a noise yesterday and I did check the wiring, it's just a defective driver, no biggie. Axiom is sending another so I'll replace it and send the defective driver back.

I have the radio shack dig meter. at a measured 20' distance from the speakers, I had my 80's at 104 db before just to see how loud they'd play. There was more in the AVR, but it was simply just too damn loud for me to go more. I have hard wood floors and log walls, if that makes a difference.

Recieved the new woofer via FedEx today, replaced it and now the problem is solved! Brought the sound up to a little over 100 dbs (sorry chess )( j/k!) and everything is working perfect! I sure do love these 80s....:)

Now you can prance around your living room wearing the old woofer as a hat!

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Now you can prance around your living room wearing the old woofer as a hat!

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You do mean as a replacement for the old tin foil don't you Peter? That stuff just wasn't cutting the mustard any more...I'm thinking the ol' Axiom woofer is going to to take me to new heights I never imagined!

Just in time for the weekend, oh wait, does not pertain to you.

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Just in time for the weekend, oh wait, does not pertain to you.

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Dennis, I'll trade you a dead woofer for a quarter rack of those rib yall' are going to be bbq'ing up this weekend, deal?
I'm thinking by the time they get from California to south Florida they'll be just right!

Turn it into a clock.

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Turn it into a clock.

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That would be cool, Ford. A little something different from the old cypress clocks we have all over the place down here!

Not sure whats on the menu yet, going to decide that today. Was thinking of having the live lobster dinners, have not done that for a party in a while.

http://www.mainelobsterdirect.com/Catalog/lobsters.cgi/49201?id=W5hiRVNh&mv_pc=5

That's it...I'm sending the woofer. Now I KNOW the food will be good whenever it gets here. Just keep the lobster on ice and wrapped in newspaper, it will make the trip and arrive alive. Perfect!