Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Multi-Zone Audio options

I'm pondering the notion of expanding the availability of audio around Casa de Tuttle.

I had previously been a proponent of setting up auxiliary systems in remote zones rather than going cable-happy. However, now that I have joined the ranks of the Sony Megachanger Society, all the content now resides in one place, making it much less convenient to have disks scattered about.

My primary goals are to make my wife happy with the results, spend as little as possible, and get music to the kitchen and the patio. I have secondary or long-range goals of enhancing/expanding the separate bedroom system so that it includes speakers in the master bath. Through a combination of existing equipment and very modest new resources, I think I can get there.

But I have questions.

First, how do these Parts Express distribution hubs and impedance-matching volume controls work? Do they measurably degrade sound quality? Are they reliable?

Would a modest (older Yamaha 80wpc integrated) amp be able to drive 2-3 pairs of speakers through such a device? Part of my plan involves moving that (DPL) amp from the bedroom to drive the zone 2 speakers and replacing it with a newer, smaller stereo-only receiver. Does anybody have suggestions for cheap, remote-controlled receivers that could push two sets of speakers at low volumes? I've been thinking of the Onkyo TX-8211. I've also been shopping ebay relentlessly for either a credible zone 2 amp or a receiver, but have not had much luck.

The kitchen speaker installation is challenging. Wall space is virtually non-existent and it would be practically impossible for me to mount anything in the ceiling. So, I think I'm stuck with VERY SMALL box speakers on wall brackets. Fortunately, the current bedroom system includes a Polk RM3000 sub-sat system with small but robust speakers. I am considering running them without the (passive) sub in the kitchen, with full knowledge that I will likely get very little response below 120Hz. Comments? Are there other, inexpensive very small form-factor options I should consider? M2's are too big and too expensive for what I have in mind. Obviously, I am ready to sacrifice sound quality in this area due to cost, physical constraints and overwhelming ambient noise.

I have one old but decent quality Boston Acoustics in-wall speaker that I might like to use somewhere, but would want it to carry both the left and right channels. Is that a reasonable suggestion and, if so, how do I wire that and would it do anything cataclysmic to the impedance?

I know there have been a couple of outdoor speaker threads recently, and I'm having a hard time finding something more compelling than the $100 Rockets.

Thanks for your advice.

- Tom

Tom,

I am going through the same process. I am building a deck and I am currently trying to decide how to power the outdorr speakers. I have a Denon 2805. I am using the Zone 2/Surround for my 6.1 setup. I am curious if I could run the outdoor speakers off the Front B connections? I have decided on the speakers. I ordered the Rocket OD100's and they arrived 5-13-2005. I must say I am very impressed. I unhooked my M22 front's of my home theater and replaced them with the Rockets. I played some music in the Stereo mode and they sounded fabulous. I cannot believe the only cost $100. They are currently packed back in the box waiting for the deck to be built and for me to decide how to power them. I highly recommend the Rockets. I don't think you can get a better deal. If anyone has ideas or suggestions on how to power them it would be appreciated. I would like to use the Denon so I can play music from my SACD/DVDA player and my XM satellite radio, both of which are hooked up to the Denon.

Scott

Hi Scott - Thank you very much for your review of the Rocket Outdoor speakers. I appreciate you taking the time to share your experience. I was beginning to wonder if I was going to get ANY help

I have a (considerably) lower model Denon than you (the 1804), but I think our problems are similar. I think you could run the outdoor speakers from the powered Speaker B terminals of your Denon pretty easily. The downside would be that the volume would be tied to the same volume level you have the Speaker A set (main front L/R). I think you could "disable" Speaker A, but I don't think you can set the volumes for Speaker A and Speaker B independently. If you can live with that scenario, you've got a "free" solution.

If not, you could hook up just about any amplifier to the Zone 2 pre-outs and control the Zone 2 volume (and content) independent of whatever is going on in Zone 1.

My 1804 does not have the second set of amplified main terminals (Speaker B). While it does have the option of using the surround rear amp channel as Zone 2, the result is Mono, not Stereo.

Thanks again for your positive comments on the outdoor speakers. We'll be wanting pictures, you know

Tom,

Thanks for the information. The Denon manual is horrible when discussing the Zone2 or Front A/B options. I will experiment some this weekend before I make a final decision.

The deck will be done on Memorial Day, so I will try and post some pictures when I get everything set up.

As for the speakers, I looked at Klipsch and Def Tech also. Both were over $300 per pair. I took a chance on the Onix Rockets, them only being $100 per pair. I am glad I did. I am not an audiophile, but they sound great to me. Very "clear". At lower volumes they did not sound alot different than the Axiom M22's. When I pushed them, I noticed a little difference. I am sure they will play loud enough to upset the neighbors. For $100 they are exceptional.

Thanks again,

Scott

Hi Tom. I won't be any help regarding your indoor setup options but I can tell you a little about some speakers I listened to prior to purchasing.

A fellow that lives in the neighborhood runs a security/home audio business and uses his home as a demo location. I walked over and listened to Stereostone's Stereo Rock, which produces stereo sound from one rock speaker and Jamo outdoor speakers. I don't remember the model number but they were the largest outdoor offering. The Stereo Rock provided pretty good sound for background music but at higher levels sounded flat. The Jamo speakers has great range and at annoy the neighbors level produced well defined base, mid-range, and highs. As far as placement options, the StereoRock was pretty versatile in that it can be placed just about anywhere. The Jamos were limited to awnings or walls.

I also listened to some Yamahas, Klipcsh, and a few other brands I can't remember. Except for the Yamahas, all suffered from lack of bass and poor highs. Had location not been an issue, I would have purchased the Yamahas as they produced great sound for the price and were not as big as the Jamos. I decided on the DaVinci model from Stereostone. I didn't want to hang speakers from the patio and I liked the idea of having the music flowing towards the house and not away. Pricey, but man are they a pleasure to listen to at any volume level. They are powered by the Denon using Zone 2. It was somewhat of a pain to run wiring but now that is is finished, I'm happy I went that route. When the deck is finsished, I'll post pictures, assuming I will know how when the time comes.

I pre-wired my house with cat five and speaker wires to six separate locations for a whole home audio system with in ceiling speakers. Still haven’t done anything with it, as I was unable to find speakers to my liking. They all sucked, in my opinion. But if you’re just looking for background music, they fit that bill OK. I can’t comment about the products you linked to, I have no idea. I was going a different route.

When I was looking for hardware two years ago, I had picked out a multi zone unit from Kustom. The one I was looking at had six separate amps that would all play independent source material at all six zones simultaneously. Pretty trick unit really. I could be in the garage listing to the CD while the little lady was listening to the tuner in the spa. The cat five is there for IR control at each zone. It’s home run ran from each zone to where the EQ rack and equipment was going to be located in the office. I picked this location so I could easily hook up my CPU along with CD and Tuner.

You can cut and paste the link for some more info in this set up if interested. http://www.smarthome.com/8270c.html

Tom, I would advise that you: a) get the outdoor speakers and wire them up now for spring/summer, b) forget about the kitchen speakers, and c) hold off on upgrading the bedroom system.
Eventually the bedroom system will likely be comprised of discarded components from your current HT, as you gradually, yet inevitably, succumb to the upgrade bug.

My multi room systen consists of a JVC Boom Box, sounds decent for 150 clams and can go anywhere there is a plug, and if not use the batteries. Mini systems are OK, just replace the speakers with Axioms for example and it will sound pretty decent. Thats what I will do someday when money isnt so tight. As for the MegaChanger, just make some MP3 discs of all your favorite songs for each room and voila. Just my inner cheapskate method of doing things.

I recently did something similar to what it sounds like you are trying to accomplish so I will tell you essentially everything I know about this stuff (which as you'll see is very little) and hope some of it is helpful.

If you found outdoor speakers that you like, stick with them. After listening to a lot of speakers (Polk, Klipsch, Infinity, Bose, - everything at Best Buy and Circuit City) and really wanting to like Polk or Klipsch - the hands down winner (meaning in this case it was the "least bad" option) was a $40 pair of speakers made by Dual.

If you are going to run multiple zones off of a single output you need a hearty receiver or amplifier. My Yamaha HTR 5640 couldn't handle it (3 zones through a Russound SDB 4.1 "speaker selector http://www.russound.com/speaker_selectors.htm
- but it was designed for home theater, not stereo with really low resistance. HK stereo (3480) and AVR (235) handle it very well although the truth is that a robust stereo amp would likely be a significant upgrade. The more zones you are going to try to run with one amp source, the more this will be true.

I have volume controls similar to the ones you linked. They do not seem to degrade the sound in any way and having the ability to put on 5 CDs, hit "play" and then adjust the volume in the individual locations is very nice.

Given your space limitation, I'd be willing to bet that you will have a hard time finding anything that will compare favorably to "free" Polks. I have a Velodyne CHT -8 subwoofer in a cabinet (yes, I understand the cost and cosmesis limitations of what you are going through) in my living room and when I crank the music in there, the bass can be appreciated in the other 2 zones where there is no sub and the speakers are less than ideal... so you might want to put a decent, small, very inexpensive sub (I got mine for $150) in the room where you are most likely to play the music loud and let it "supplement" the other zones.

Hope this helps.

Ronno and Foghorn, thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts and experiences. My "inner cheapskate" is alive and well, and all options remain on the table. Foghorn, I think your observation about letting the "main room" sub supplement the (nearly adjacent) zone 2 speakers is spot-on. Best solution for me continues to look like finding an affordable used power amp or integrated amp to run the extra zones from the zone 2 pre-out of my humble Denon.

Does your Denon have an ABUS jack? That could be an alternative, as well.

Good thinking, Ken. But no, I'm too cheap for the fancy-schmancy Denons. I've got to stop hanging around here.

I saw a very discrete and decent sounding Sony under-cabinet kitchen radio at CostCo for $89.
Or was the object whole house tunes from one source? If so, why not just grab another pair of some decent towers, a cheap amp and some long wires?
Your outdoor system could be "open the windows".

See, I KNOW this is one of those problems that I'm simply trying to solve without throwing the requisite amount of money at it. The idea is whole-house from one source. Nothing that some amps, wires and speakers won't fix. Most problems can be solved with time and money.

My current outdoor system IS "open the windows". My current kitchen system is "turn it up".

My wife would know I had slipped a cog if I came home with some under-counter-mounted CD player. Hmm, maybe I can use that...

In reply to:

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under-counter-mounted CD player

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i got one of those thru a reward/incentive program from work. i dont even remember the brand.

it actually works pretty good. i mean, it plays the radio, and cd's. it shows the time, and even has an alarm feature.. its definitly nothing worth telling the neighbors about, but it works just fine for the 30 minute chunks of time it takes to cook and clean in the kitchen!

bigjohn

If you want the same tunes in your living room, kitchen, outside, or virtually anywhere there's a power outlet in your home, simultaneously without running wires, you can go the route I went. Purchase a decently-powered FM transmitter, hook it up to your Denon's tape output, and set it to an emtpy or faint frequency (preferably not one you or your neighbors listen to).

Then all you have to do is plug in a portable or bookshelf stereo system -- some of which have detachable/replaceable speakers (hint, hint) -- in each location you want to hear the music now beaming from your very own radio station.

Admittedly, this solution won't sound as good as running wires to separate amps/speakers, but it's damn well the best bang for your buck you'll likely see, especially if you already own the stereos.

Peter, that is borderline brilliant. I know you've mentioned that concept before, but I had completely forgotten.

Only a couple of problems in my case, though. From the looks of it, I can buy and string a fair amount of 14g wire for what a transmitter costs, and I actually DON'T have any funky old boomboxes or shelf systems just laying around. Still, that is food for confusion, er, thought. Thank You.

Tom, Peter's suggestion may well work, but don't overlook the threat of the Black Helicopters .

I have to admit that I was just trying to see if I could get anyone else interested in ABUS, since I've been trying to figure out if/how to use it for awhile.