Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo Multi-disc players

I was just wondering if anybody could recommend a good multi-disc CD player. Mine is 15 years old, and I am thinking of upgrading. Also, is it really worth it to get SACD/DVD-A capabilities? I know there are cheap DVD models (I have two). I was wondering about high quality without breaking the bank. IE: under $1,000.00
Thanks!

Shane D

PS: This is strictly for music on the two channel system

Shane, assuming that you have a large CD collection, the convenience of the Sony 400 disc changer, available for around $300, can't be beat.

Shane,
Take a look at the Yamaha DVD-C750.
Multi Play, DVD, DVD-A, SACD
List is $365, you should be able to do better.
Good review here;
http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/YamahaDVD-C750DVDChanger1.php
(somebody will come along and tidy that up...)
Very nice player. I like mine quite a bit.
At that price it seems kind of silly to leave SACD/DVD-A on the table.
Of course, that is if your current reciever is already configured for the 6 analog inputs required for SACD/DVD-A.
But even if it is not, you are going to buy a new reciever sooner or later, right?

Ah, just saw the 2 channel note...
And I am guessing that is why you were asking if the SACD/DVD-A was worth it.
I am sure that I will get shouted down by many here, but I actually think that the SACD/DVD-A option is well worth it, even if you are just going to listen in 2 channel.
TO ME, the saturation, depth, clarity, soundstage, ect. of the high rez formats is a noticable improvement over Redbook CDs, even in 2 channel.
(let the shouting begin- just give me a minute to go get my helmet!)
I actually spend MORE time listening to SACD/DVD-A in 2 channel than multi-channel, and have bought several SACDs that are only 2 channel recordings. The two Los Lobos on Mobile Fidelity Labs are very, very good, and the two Bill Evans Live from the Village Vanguard are great.

On the other side of the argumant, there will be plenty who will present very convincing arguments, based on the science of digital reproduction and digital transmission, why your 15 year old player is every bit as good as anything that you can buy today, and in some cases, better.

Let the shouting begin.

I just noticed a mistake, by ommission, in my above post.
For SACD/DVD-A playback, even in 2 channel, you are STILL going to need a reciever with the dedicated 6 channel analog inputs.
Hmmm... Now that I am typing this, I wonder if this is strictly true.
Has anyone out there tried to hook up just the Front left and Front right analog outputs from an SACD/DVD-A player to regular analog inputs on a reviever? And then chosen the 2 channel stereo option in the set up choices on the DVD-A or scrolled to the "stereo" choice in their SACD playback options?
The switching happens at the player, not the processor, correct?
Hmmm... a possible loophole for someone interested in the added resolution of SACD/DVD-A, but not interested in multi-channel playback and adding a new reciever and three more speakers to their 2 channel set up?

Seabear, i have hooked up my dvda to my receiver using just 2 analog inputs. You still get the high resolution format but obviously only in 2 channels. However, since the dvda format was designed for 5.1 speaker arrangement, i think you would be missing alot.
There was little if any sonic difference in playing the high resolution vs regular digital stereo discs this way.

I just replied to similar post on the HT board. So I’ll just copy that. I hate typing.

I have the Integra 8.5 (six disk universal changer). Can’t really comment on the video quality, as I have not used very many DVD players to compare it to. I have a four year old Toshiba 6200 that has as good a picture as the Integra, but I don’t really know if this is good or not. Looks good to me at any rate.

I use the Integra for CD play back only now, because I like to load up a few CD’s and let em’ spin for a few hours. But I was using it for DVD’s and CD’s for about 3 months, and it played everything flawlessly.

How about the sound quality? I only have about 200 cd's in total. I was thinking of upgrading for two reasons:
(1)I would assume that the players must be better quality now
and
(2)I want to have a carousel type when I can change cd's as needed, while one is still playing. The one I have is the cartridge type.

Shane D

I will check out the Yamaha item. I am getting a new amp (probably next week). It will be the NAD C372 2 channel. I wanted maximum power, and that room is not for home theatre. I was really wondering if it would be worth the money for SACD, for this unit. Or do people only buy them for the 5.1 set up?

Shane D

Is Integra the brand name? I read somewhere that DVD players only do an "adequate" job of playing CD's. This was probably in a magazine that says that CD players under $2,000.00 are entry level :-)
For the experts in the group, Is there any truth to it? Are pure CD players better at reproducing music than a DVD player that also happens to play CD's?

Shane D

I just checked out the Yamaha DVD-C750 and C950. Both look pretty good and the prices are reasonable. However, as I mentioned earlier, do these do as good a job on music as pieces that were built only to play audio CD's?. Are there any special specs to consider (DAC?)?

Thanks to everyone for the input!

Shane D

Integra is Onkyo's high end brand. I wouldn't worry about CDs in DVD players-after all, it's a motor running the disc rotation (check), a little thing to move the laser (check), and a separate laser system for the CDs (check). If you're going to run the player to your reciever or processor with a digital coax or digital optical cable, you're not dealing with the player's DAC at all.

Thanks for clearing up the name thing. I will check it out. So with digital outputs, there is no DAC functioning? So, I will have to make sure that the amp and the player have matching outputs/inputs.

Shane D

there is a DAC functioning, you are just using the DAC at the receiver or pre/pro if you are using a digital connection.

SInce you are using a NAD C372 integrated amp, it does not have DACs or digital connections, so you would have to use the DACs on the CD player.

The C372 is one nice integrated amp.

As for SACD's, yes, there are many that are specifically two-channel, and you would need a SACD player to take advantage of the high-resolution track.

Good to know!

Shane D

It plays audio very well. You can defeat the video, although I have no idea why it has that function. I like the Integra because it’s actually a six disk changer. One disk can be playing and I can open the carousel and load five new CD’s into it. I used to have an older Kenwood and I noticed a difference with SQ with the Integra over it. The Kenwood used a 12 bit DAC, the Integra uses a 24. The Kenwood would sometimes skip and stop playing on older disks with light scratches; the Integra plays them no problem. Again, no idea why or how. It just does. Onkio has one just like it, at a lower price……once again, I have no idea what the Integra has that the Onkio doesn’t besides a higher price tag.

Summery…..I’m an impulsive buyer that does not do nearly enough research before buying at times.

Here’s the web sight for you to cut and paste. I haven’t bothered to figure out how to post a link at this web sight. Dammm….I just re-read all that and realize I don’t know much……..

http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?m=DPC-8.5&class=DVD&p=s

OK, tutorial time. All y'all who can't make a good link, listen up.

Here's how you do it.

[ url=http://www.whatever.com ]what you want people to see and click on here[ /url ]

Take out the spaces inside the brackets, and there you go. Also, Preview is your friend! Test those links, guys...

Shane, sound quality wasn't discussed as a factor since with any well-designed modern player audibly flawless CD reproduction is a given. We've all read how for some mysterious reason a "dedicated" CD player is better than a CD/DVD player, but there's no factual basis for that these days. CD/DVD players use dual lasers, 650nm wavelength for CDs and 780nm for DVDs/SACDs, each being the optimum for reading those discs.

As far as the number of discs go, you're certainly right to want more convenience, and a megachanger maximizes the convenience factor. With a carousel, picking out a new disc and manually inserting it is still required if it doesn't happen to be one of the few already in the player. Your entire collection could be permanently stored in a megachanger and could be either simply catalogued with a written list or entered into the player memory with a rather tedious process.

Although not capable of playing DVDs I do have a couple of Sony 300 disc CD MegaChangers daisy chained together where I can shuffle all tracks between both players in the 'no-delay' mode and never have a song repeat itself untill all songs have played through randomly....an awesome feature that works well for me.

Just as John says, I catalog my cds on a written list and have them entered into the player memory. Great product as far as I am concerned.

In reply to:

---

With a carousel, picking out a new disc and manually inserting it is still required if it doesn't happen to be one of the few already in the player.

---

I kind of like having a carousel (H/K FL8550) as it forces me to look down spine labels when it's time to change out music. But I'm a pretty visual person... gives me that chance to say "hey, I haven't heard Helpyourselfish in a while"...

And while the H/K doesn't sound any better than the single disc consumer Sony I used to have, the build quality has been spectacular... I've had it about 4-5 years, it runs about 12-16 hours a day and has never given me any real grief - occasionally it'll "miss" a disc it's supposed to turn to and have to catch it the second time around, but for something with 20,000 operational hours on it and having been in a two-smoker household for 3 of those years, it's doing pretty damned good.

Bren R.

did you look at the review for that Yam 750 on Audioholics?
The biggest reason I bought it was for audio playback, and the guys at Audioholics raved about it for CD playback.
It has not dissapointed. It is a fine player.
TjB

OK, OK,
I'll stop being lazy.
I cut and pasted that into a word document and saved it to my desktop so that I know where to find it when I need it.
Thanks Ken!

I beg to differ with you but I have my sacd player hooked up to the two analog inputs on my reciever and that when playing sacd's I find that this provides greater depth ,detail and wider sound stage then red book cd's give me on my m80's.I am using a Sony scd 2000es sacd changer as my source.

I Guess as a poster mentioned earlier, when using the NAD C372, I will need a unit with a 24 bit DAC. I checked out the Integra website. I will have to compare the specs and pricing VS the Onkyo piece. They had three reviews for the 8.5, but none from Audioholics. According to an old reveiew, the price was $700.00 US. Do you mind if I ask what you paid for yours?

Shane D

I was reading HiFi+ about a review for a new CD player. It is supposed to give phenomenal sound for the price of about 19,000 lbs. And of course, you will need a separate DAC. For both pieces, the price is about $60,000.00 Canadian!! That is insane, but it also makes me wonder about the whole "they are all the same" slogan.
I don't use my stero enough, or have enough CD's to justify a large changer. Now when it comes to DVD's, that may be an option ;-)

Shane D

Sounds good, athough I only have about 200 cds. I am buying movies over cd's at a ratio of about 10 to 1 the last two years.

Shane D

My Onkyo still sounds fine after 15 years, and I smoke like a chimney:-) I do like loading six at a time. It makes me constantly review my whole collection every time I sit down. And, almost every time I go "geez I haven't heard that one in quite a while". As I mentioned earlier the reasons that I am thinking about upgrading are 1) change discs while playing 2) wondering about better sound quality, and 3) Really curious about SACD.

Shane D

I did print off the specs, but saw no link to the Audioholics reveiw?

Shane D

Reading a review on the Integra 8.5, they said the same thing. I don't even own any SACD's, but if there is a difference, I would like to keep my options open on trying it.

Shane D

With Integra, your options are limited where you can buy them. They are only sold by high end A/V shops (usually) where they perform custom home installs. I had no luck finding an on-line dealer. …..so I paid MSRP. $699

If I would have known then that I would be using this thing for CD only, I would have bought a NAD or Rotel CD/MP3 Changer. They are not as expensive, and probably better machines. But if you want DVD/SACD/DVDA/CD/MP3/WMA/CDR....the 8.5 does it all. It’ll even play them all on random. Some of the universals don't have that option.

I considered the mega changers, but I have a small problem…..time. I know that I would not ever take the time to load it up and catalogue everything. 6 disks are enough for me.

I also have to make a correction to my earlier post. The Integra’s PQ is better than my Toshiba 6200. While watching Starsky and Hutch last night, and drinking some Crown on ice, Starsky’s car looked funny. The white stripe was not clear and kind of blurred into the red. Not knowing for sure if it was the player or the third cocktail, I backed it up and watched it over a couple times. Still there. Then when they were pantomiming, the black and white striped shirts were fuzzy and the lines were all screwed up. This is the fourth drink by now. So by this time, I had enough liquid curiosity to motivate myself into changing the players around. I then watched the parts of the DVD where I noticed problems, and they were gone. The Integra had no problems with the white stripe or the black and white shirts.

So thanks. Now I have to buy a new DVD player. Crap……there goes another grand.

And the Kenwood that I had before (that the Integra plays better) is a model # DP-M6650 – if you get the itch to compare the two.

No kidding on the options thing. There are five Onkyo dealers in my province but none for Integra. You mentioned an NAD changer. So does a local dealer, yet I see no mention of it on their web site? I think that I would like to keep my options open on SACD, although at the recent CES show, they are saying that "New Great Thing" will be Blue Ray or HD. I figure if that does happen, maybe I will get a good price on a ton of outdated SACD's ;-)

Shane D

Okay guys, more than the 24 hour limit I set for somebody to point out that of course CDs use the longer 780nm wavelength laser for their bigger pits, rather than the cleverly reversed info included in my previous reply. The first one to post was going to get an appropriate prize; probably I'd order an EP600 for them. Oh well, maybe I'll try this again sometime.

I just thought you were drunk.......

Whoops... I just skim over numbers... those could have said 230km and I wouldn't have caught it.

Bren R.

I would rather assume you made a mistake like most mere mortals' are capable of

Onkyo DV-CP802 is pretty much same as the Integra DPC-8.5 that is discussed in this thread. From the pics and specs it looks like it has everything same except that Integra has detachable power cord, double composite and S-video outputs, RS232 connection for custom installations and IR flasher inputs. It also has BNC component jacks as well as standard RCA's. The specs look materially same. And refurb Onkyo goes for $399. I wonder if anybody uses it here. It would be high on my list.

I was checking with my dealer today, and he was not happy. The Onkyo that you referred to is available direct for $499.00 from them. You can also get a refurb for $399.00, as you noted. This is WAY more than they are charging. Buddy said that this is close to/below his cost. I am guessing that very soon, he will only be carrying Integra, which he says that he can get. The Integra is insanely expensive, and I cannot buy it direct.

Shane D

I spoke to a local dealer today, and I can get that unit for $329.00 in Canadian dollars. Man, that is cheap. Salesman said that the only donwside is that they are slow to change discs.

As far as old being good as new, I don't think so. I just found my old manual. The new Onkyo beats the old in every possible way, and is dirt cheap. Some examples:
1) two times oversampling VS 128
2) frequency response has gone from 20 to 20K to 5 to 20K
3) Power consumption has gone from 15 to 10 watts
4) THD has gone from .03 to .005

Small changes granted, but there should be some improvement in sound.

Shane D

I did finally read that review and it was glowing. And the player is dirt cheap. Hmmmmmmmm

Shane D

I took mine home for $249, but I also bought my 2500 at the same time.
But it is indeed a very nioce sounding player, and as far as I can tell meets all of your posted requirements.
TjB

HI,
Im thinking of getting a Denon DV-2910 as my primary disc spinner. I'd be using it for 60% CD, 30% SACD and 10% DVD-A/V. Any comments on the performance of the 2910 for the afore mentioned usage?

Does anyone know where you can buy this unit in Canada? It's not even listed on the Yamaha Canada website, and none of the usual big retailers seem to have it listed.

I bought mine from Soundsaround in Calgary, but it was back in early spring. They were clearing them out at that time for $250 which incl a full set of AR analog cables.

How do you like it? This is exactly what I've been looking for: an affordable 5-disc DVD player that is compatible with SACD and DVD-A. I'm hoping they become more widely available with time, but for some reason we don't seem to have as much selection in Canada when it comes to electronics. I haven't seen one in Ottawa yet, but I'll keep looking...

For the price, I love it. It's a little slow when changing discs, and I found getting the analog audio calibrated was a pain in the a$$, but other than that, it's a great machine. The picture quality is good. Layer change is imperceptable. Analog audio quality is great.

I'll keep my eyes open around here...if I find one, I'll PM you with the info.