Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Axiom / Paradigm comparrison

I would like to get some opinions on a speaker comparison from you guys. I have been looking at receivers and speakers for several weeks and reading everything I can get my hands on. I have changed my mind several times especially on receivers. I feel that I have finally settled on my new receiver and it is the Marantz SR8500. I am hoping some of you guys can give me some insight on my speaker choices. I seem to get different opinions depending on what the person giving the advice owns. I have really liked the Axiom speakers from the start and every time I start thinking in another direction I always seem to end up back on the Axioms.

I have been looking at the Axiom Epic 80 500 set up and I really like the look and reviews I have read on them although I have not yet had a chance to listen to them. I have a friend that lives up north that swears by them and is actually the one who turned me on to them.

The other speakers I have been told to try to audition are the Paradigm monitor series and reference series. I looked and listened to the monitor 7's with the corresponding surround speakers. They sounded pretty good but I am still not sure they can hang with the Epic 80 500 set up. I have been told that the Axioms better compare to the Reference or studio series. These are a good bit more expensive than the epic 80’s but if they are better I may go take a listen to them.

So if anyone has any insight on these comparisons please fill me in. Also do any of you know if the Marantz SR8500 will handle the 4-ohm load of the M80t's? If it can’t I plan on getting a couple of Outlaw 200 to power them. I may go that way anyway but would prefer to go that route later due to the amount of cash I am getting ready to drop on the Marantz and Axioms.

Please share your thoughts and opinions on this. Thanks

Hi moorejh,

The Marantz A/V receivers will generally not drive the 4-ohm M80ti's without current limiting (very limited power output). The A/V receiver brands that will drive them without difficulty in moderately large rooms (4,000 cu. ft) include Denon, H/K, and NAD. If very high sound levels are required in bigger spaces, we recommend at least a separate power amp for the main left and right channels (the M80ti's) capable of high power into 4-ohm loads.

If huge spaces and very high SPLs aren't a requirement, the M60ti's are an easy 8-ohm load that your Marantz would drive. Tonally, almost identical to the M80s, with only slightly less peak output and deep bass capability.

Paradigm are decent speakers, but the M80ti, M60ti etc. are generally more neutral and accurate than the Monitor series. The Axioms are comparable to the Reference Studio models (I think the Axioms are a tad more neutral). Paradigms tend to have a 3-dB or so hump in the upper bass that gives them a bit of a fat, "bloated" sound on male vocals, etc.

Regards,

Adding to Alan's post, we have a pair of Paradigm Studio 100 V.3's ($2300) in the same room that we had a air of M22ti's ($440). The M22ti's are a more revealing loudspeaker, with a larger soundstage.

We are going to be conducting some blind testing of the M-80's to the Studio 100 V.3's later in the summer, but it is a pretty safe bet the Axioms will do quite well.

The Marantz would serve as a pretty good pre-amp/center and rear power amp, with a good two channel amp added. Look at Outlaw Audio's mono-blocks. Audio Advisor has a nice deal working on the Parasound HCA-1500, too. It is rated 315 WPC continuous into 4 ohms, and they have it on sale for $749.

OR ... Send Neverhappy a PM, he will be trying the NAD T-773 out with his system, and it looks to be an EXCELLENT 7 channel receiver for a street price of $1300 - you could sell the Marantz and go with a "one box" solution with the NAD.

If you do a search you will find several people have commented on Axiom / Paradigm comparisons but I don't think there have been any definitive comparisons yet. [EDIT] Sounds like craigsub is going to fix that

One of my friends was looking at Paradigms; started with Monitor 3s, ended up looking at Monitor 7s. Liked the sound until he listened to Studio 40s (the same speaker in the Reference line) at the same store -- the Monitors sounded pretty muddy by comparison.

I was looking forward to him getting the Studios (even Studio 20s would have been pretty good) so we could A/B but he ended up ordering Axiom M22s and hasn't looked back.

Dang, no chance to compare 'em ;(

If you are running without a sub the Paradigms do put out more bass than the corresponding Axioms. [EDIT] As Alan points out, this isn't always a good thing.

Paradigm does make some real nice speakers, for sure, but it does seem like you have to go to the Studio models to get the same kind of clarity as the Axioms have.

I agree, a search for "Paradigm" should bring up lots of posts on this subject. I will add that when I was demoing speakers, I felt my 60's perfomed overall better than some Studio's(can't remember which model) and B&W 703's.

good luck

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Adding to Alan's post, we have a pair of Paradigm Studio 100 V.3's ($2300) in the same room that we had a air of M22ti's ($440). The M22ti's are a more revealing loudspeaker, with a larger soundstage.

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Now that's saying something when a bookshelf can perform that good.I will interested on your thoughts of the M80s for sure.

I auditioned Monitors 90s before I ordered the Epic 60 500. I upgraded to M80ti's during the trial period. Not that I didn't like the 60's. Great speakers. Good range of sound and plenty of bass. My upgradeitis got the best of me therefore the 80's and Outlaw Monos. I now have a HT setup that has me reliving all my dvds and cds.

Plus, at some point, I may actually be able to spell "pair" ...

I read right through that,didn't even notice it.

I listened to the monitor 7s and studio 20s in a B&M. I really wasn't that impressed with the 7s. I ordered m22s unheard because of advise I received at this board and at others. I made the right choice. If you would order the m22s and your tastes are similar to mine, you would have a difficult time returning them. Return shipping would be maybe $25. That's not alot to pay when your considering a pair of $2300 floorstanders. I may be wrong, but Axiom probably has an upgrade policy if you need tower speakers.

How big is the room you will be listening in ? That might help with the "M60 8 ohm vs. M80 4 ohm but might need separate amps" question.

I’ve heard all the Paradigms. The Studio 100, vrs 3 is the only speaker they have that can compare to the M80’s. The Monitor series wasn’t even in the ball park, IMHO. I haven’t’ heard M60’s, so no comment there.

My perception to the Studio 100’s sound is identical to how Alan stated it, but I would add that the 80’s seam to have a tighter mid range. That guy’s starting to scare me………

I have heard the M60 a lot in my own home, and at spiff's, also have spent some time with Studio 60's. In the very least, those two speakers are comparable, and anybody thinking about spending money on Studio 60's should seek out a pair of M60's for an audition.

Thanks for all of the feedback guys! My room is 18' x 25'. I was looking at the NAD T773 a while back but kind of got scared by the hissing posts I was reading. Are you saying that I should reconsider? I havent ordered the Marantz yet so I am not stuck with it by any means. I am still open to other receiver suggestions. I have about 1500.00 I can use on a receiver including tax.

HK 7300 should probably be on your list then. I think you can find it for about 1300.

mdrew is correct - www.onecall.com is an authorized Harmon Kardon dealer, and has the 7300 for $1300. It looks like a pretty nice unit - and you can always purchase separate amps later if you feel the need.

How would you guys rate the HK-7300 vs the NAD T773. I found the NAD for $1400.00 new and the HK for $1299.00 (which I think is probably a refurb although it has a 2 year factory warranty).

From Alan's comments I think the Marantz is out due to the 4 ohm load. I could probably get by with the M60's and use the Marantz but I have the extra money to spend right now and I dont want to miss the opportunity to get the M80's bec it may be a long time before I talk my wife into letting me spend more on my system.

What gripes me is that I called the Marantz tech line and the guy there said there was not any doubt the the SR8500 could handle the 4 Ohm speakers. Guess I can tell who he works for...

IF you have the room, probably the Harmon Kardon - UAV tested it as delivering 214 WPC @ 1000 Hz and 197 WPC @ 20 Hz, with ALL SEVEN channels driven into a four ohm load.

The NAD is limited to 131 WPC into a 4 ohm load, with all 7 channels driven.

That is excellent performance, the biggest downside is the ease of use. We will likely go with the NAD because my kids can use the front of the receiver easily - that is worth giving up the 2 dB difference is output, though in real world performance, it is likely not a 2 dB difference, as NAD usually has more short term headroom than its competitors.

For two GOOD, online sources, look at www.dmc-electronics.com for NAD and www.onecall.com for the H-K. Both will price match, and both are authorized dealers.

The 7300 has some pretty trick video processing. Not sure about the NAD. You might want to send TNTGUY a PM. He just upgraded from the 635 to the 7300.

The 7300 at One Call is new. I bought my 7200 from them. No problems, and quick. If you do buy it and need the remote sensor for the Zone 2, give me a holler. I’ll give you a heck of deal on it. I no longer need it.

Craig,
The 7200 is a piece of cake to set up and use (I suspect the 7300 to be similar). My 11 YO has no troubles using it, or the MX 850 (I just love this remote). Once you go through the initial set up, it’s as simple as selecting the input source on the remote, and the AVR takes it from there – included the X-over settings for each devise, type of surround and input path you previously set up for each devise plugging into the back. I wasn’t all that impressed with the sensor mounted on the remote. I ended up using my radio shack meter to calibrate the channels. Then it’s simple to add or take away db’s from whatever channel you want. One thing to keep in mind though, it does run pretty warm. Not hot to the touch, but you will definitely want to keep it well ventilated. It took me about an hour to read the manual and perform the initial set up. - And I’m horrible at that crap.

I recently upgraded from an HK 635 to the 7300. As Craig and mdrew mentioned OneCall is an authorized HK dealer and sells the 7300 for $1342. Haven't had time to do extensive listening but I can already tell the 7300 is a great unit. I love HK and their high current designs. Clean and clear power. No question both AVRs are excellent. Once I have had a chance to use the Farouja processing in the 7300 I will post my thoughts on that and comparisons to the 635 here in a couple of weeks. Neverhappy will be receving his 773 soon and I am sure he will post his thoughts on it when it arrives.

In addition to OneCall, also try the HarmanAudio Ebay Store. Sometimes you can find good deals on HK refurbished equipment. The 7300's show up there almost everyday.

Sounds like the HK is the preferred chioice by most of you. My biggest concern on the NAD is the reported hissing or humming when the speakers are not in use.

I've posted a couple of times on Axiom vs Paradigm A/B tests.

http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=HT&Number=28245&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Words=SeanF&Match=Username&Searchpage=4&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=28231

Sean

mdrew and tntguy, thanks for the replies ! I would REALLY like to put a 3rd set of Emotiva's MPS-1/DMC-1's into this room, but the kids have a hard time dealing with the somewhat complex nature.

On a funny note, the "decorator approval" stuff on the M80's, EP-600, and the surrounds is getting pretty funny.

NOW my wife is thinking Gloss Black - which Axiom does have available. Amie just had four different finishes sent out to my wife, and guys, I gotta say, the custom stuff from Axiom is beautiful !

Sum-bitch! How many friggin systems do you have? I’ve lost count already……

I’m wish they would have had black when I got mine. I think it looks pretty cool. I might go with it in seperate HT room…..that is if I ever finish the dam thing.

We have four theater areas, with screens from 42 to 120 inches. We had an Ascend system in one room, and my wife wanted something that was more to her tastes - at first, it was going to be oak, but now she wants Piano Gloss black.

A Gloss Black system based on M-80's and the EP-600 should be quite good, eh ? ...

Richeydog - That Harmon Audio site is relly noce - thanks !

Now if my wife would figure out which look she wants ...

Sweet……pictures if you get it please.

Now, four theater areas? I just don’t know what to say or ask in response to that. And I thought I was bad dumping two grand on an espresso machine.

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Richeydog - That Harmon Audio site is relly noce - thanks !

Now if my wife would figure out which look she wants ...

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You're Welcome.

Four theater rooms is quite impressive to say the least. Now if you've got one of these in your home then I'm there.

My kids would LOVE one of those popcorn machines, but da missus frowns on that. As for the theater areas, by this fall, the three main ones will look like this:

Family room theater (27x24 feet): Axiom M-80's, VP-150, QS-8's, EP-600, NAD or HK receiver, 70 inch Sony or Hitachi TV (open to change, if something better comes along) ...

Media Room theater (25x24): ACI Essence V, Essence center channel, Emeralds and Emerald On-Walls, Emotiva MPS-1/DMC-1 for amp/pre-pro and a Sony VPL-51 (SCREAMING BARGAIN) onto a 120 inch Dalite screen.

Basement theater (44 x 14.5) - Onix Reference 3's, Ref 100 center, Ref 2's surrounds with same Emotiva gear, a Yamaha 510 FP onto a 77 inch Dalite screen.

The 4th ? It is a Bedroom suite theater (16x14) - Rocket ELT system, including SW-10 SE subwoofer, Pioneer Elite DVD player and Receiver, 42 inch Samsung.

We have long winters. Having this space helps ...