Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo M60 vs M50 + M2 decision

Hello,

I've been in the hunt for new speakers for a while now, and I've been doing some auditioning and lots of reading. I had pretty much made up my mind that M60s would be the perfect speaker for me, but a couple of things have given me pause: nothing about the audio suitability of the speakers, but some concerns about the room that my speakers are destined for.

Basically this is our living room, and its main function is entertaining and so on, so the WAF weighs pretty heavily (ie acoustic treatments are limited to the leather furniture!)

My first concern regarding the 60's is how picky they are regarding placement: the way the room is designed, I can't pull speakers too far away from the wall. The speakers I'm upgrading from are Paradigm Phantoms, and they are front ported and seem to do just fine fairly close the the wall.

They aren't right up against the wall, but it's difficult for me to get them more than say, 8 inches away. I'd have a hard time getting much more space, especially with bigger speakers.

I'm also a bit concerned about the size of the 60s - the wife really wants speakers that won't "stand out" or dominate visually. Actually, she'd prefer no speakers but that's another topic for another day

As it is, she's OK with the Phantoms, and really liked the looks of the B&W 603s that I recently listened to. Now I liked the 603s, but that was at a dealer in a well treated room listening to some well recorded material (though, the bass did sound rough to me on one track, but maybe that was due to room interaction?)

Anyway, the 603's cost more that the 60s (more than M80s for that matter) and from what I've read I have a hard time believing that would be better sounding. That said, I could easily live with them - they seemed to be an upgrade from my Phantoms, though it's awfully hard to judge that listening to them in a different room.

The living room is a pretty big space largely because it opens up to the dining room which opens up the kitchen - that's the main reason I thought that 60s would be the way to go.

What's more, I'm the cook in the household and I love to have music on while I'm working in the kitchen. It's also nice to have for dining and so on.

But it just occurred to me that maybe the ideal solution would be to put 50s in the living room. I think that they'd have better WAF and I think the mansfield finish would match the decor nicely (it is possible to get samples of the finish to check?)

But what to do about filling the whole space with music? Well, why not add a pair of M2s to the kitchen - it seems like a brilliant solution to me, and the price of 50s + M2s is very close to a pair of 60s.

So, I guess what falls out of all my rambling are a few questions:

Does this sound like a good idea - purchasing 50s +M2s for this space?

How picky are the 50s regarding placement? I know that they have rear ports, too. Would they be OK 8 inches from the wall? I could possibly squeeze a bit more room, but probably not a lot.

Can M2s be wall mounted? If I'm putting them in the kitchen I'd have to - speaker stands in the kitchen or dining room would be impossible.

Or, would I just be happier buying the fuller output of the 60s and maybe adding bookshelves later if I feel the need? And of course, paying the hefty price of dealing with the wife's wrath if she finds them too big or dominating? (yeah, I know, you can't answer that for me!)

Anyway, thanks for any thoughts

Bill

I purchased 60's about 5 weeks ago. I also had the same worries about them sticking out into the room. Mine are about 8 inches out from the wall and sound great. I had them going late into saturday night, and wow they sounded good. My wife, who thought they were too epxensive, also agreed that they really sound good.

Shane D

The M60's have been compared to 703's on this forum. I for one believe that the in home trial is the best idea. If you don't like them or there is no WAF, send them back.

The biggest issue with the 50/60/80 isn't so much that they have to be placed an ungodly distance from the wall, it's just that they are deeper than most people expect. The 60s are a couple of inches deeper than the 50s and probably need to be an inch or two further away from the wall for the same sound, so figure the fronts of the 50s could be 3" further away from your wife, all other things being equal

If you don't have a lot of cushy wall and floor treatments (do you have carpet / rug ?) then you might find the 50s are a better match for the room acoustics. The 60s are a little more "forward" than the 50s.

Wall mounting would be no problem for the M2s.

Are the living room, dining room and kitchen "all one room" or do they just have passageways between them ?

EDIT -- btw, anyone who has compared 603s with M60s seems to have ended up preferring the M60s. With the 703s some prefer M60, some prefer 703s but the sound is supposed to be pretty similar.

What kind of music will you be listening to the most ?

Just FYI, my M50s are about 2 feet from the wall. I think they were ok a bit further back, but I like having them out. The visual impact is not all that large, but you know the room has speakers in it. My wife vetoed the M60s on the basis of size as well 2 inches bigger in depth and height. Now the 80s, those are huge.

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Now the 80s, those are huge

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Yeah man

I ended up placing a couple big house plants next to my 80’s and going with the state grey covers. They blend in better now than before. But I know what you wife is getting at. Big speakers out in the living area look out of place.

I’d suggest getting them in a color that will blend in as best you can, but don’t try to match it exactly. That would be worse. I’m also wishing that I would have gone with one of the custom solid colors as I have real wood throughout my house. The vinyl, although nicely finished, looks odd surrounded by real wood.

You’re a nut Rick .

I tried to match the customs to the wood in my room... that was also a mistake! If you're going to do that, make sure you compare in all lights... my speakers don't match the entertainment center at all!

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I purchased 60's about 5 weeks ago. I also had the same worries about them sticking out into the room. Mine are about 8 inches out from the wall and sound great. I had them going late into saturday night, and wow they sounded good. My wife, who thought they were too epxensive, also agreed that they really sound good.

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Hey thanks for the info - that's good news about the placement of the speakers.

It's funny how your wife considers them too expensive - my wife is of the same mind, and yet these speakers have to be one of the most amazing bargains out there! Fortunately, I keep a "hobby" account that I feed a small amount each payday to avoid much friction over these kinds of things.

And I'm *always* supportive of anything she wants to purchase. Even so, it takes me quite a while to build the account. If I were going to get some B&W 700 series speakers, for example, I'd be waiting a looooong time, but I have enough money to purchase some Axioms.

Bill

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I for one believe that the in home trial is the best idea.

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Oh, do I ever agree with that. I mean the 603s that I heard in the audio shop really did sound good, but I realize that doesn't tell me much about how they're going to perform in my living room...

Bill

Hey brigman, thanks for the response.

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If you don't have a lot of cushy wall and floor treatments (do you have carpet / rug ?) then you might find the 50s are a better match for the room acoustics. The 60s are a little more "forward" than the 50s.

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The 50s might be a better match here then. It's a fair sized room with hardwood floors and a lot of glass (though there are drapes). There's a small rug, a couple of leather sofas and a large stone fireplace at the opposite end of the room.

Given all that though, the Paradigms do sound quite good in here and I'm not disappointed with them in any way. In fact one could ask why I'm bothering to upgrade (I know my wife has ), and I guess the answer is simply that I've got the bug, I've got a little money and well, you know how it is

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Are the living room, dining room and kitchen "all one room" or do they just have passageways between them ?

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They are kind of in between: the living room is connected to the dining room via a passageway, but there's also a "partial" wall that has what looks like a big window without any glass in between (kinda hard to describe, but it's mostly open).

The dining room is completely open to the kitchen but there's a bar separating the two.

My music preferences are primarily: Jazz, blues, classical and a bit of rock (though less and less these days - I am severely disappointed with the quality of some of the rock recordings today...)

Bill

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I tried to match the customs to the wood in my room... that was also a mistake! If you're going to do that, make sure you compare in all lights... my speakers don't match the entertainment center at all!

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Thanks for the heads up on that! Do you know if Axiom will send out veneer samples in advance? It would be great if I could run those by my wife before I get myself hopelessly in trouble!

It's not veneer; it's vinyl even with the custom finish. They will send you samples if you call them and pay a nominal fee, which will then go towards the purchase of your speakers.

No, I don't actually work for them.

If you go with the M2's for the kitchen, are you going to play them at the same time as the M50's or 60's or on thier own? I ask because the frequency response of the M2's drops off considerably below about 70 or 80Hz so don't produce too much base on thier own. If you run them with your floorstanders that combo might work really well with the larger speakers filling in the base.

If you plan on running them on thier own I'd suggest the M3's. They are almost the same price and go lower. Unfortunatley they are a little larger and not as easy to place unobtrusively. You can wall mount all the bookshelf speakers with the FMB (full metal bracket) that axiom sells.

Samples of the stock speaker colours are free. Just call the toll free number and they will have them to you in about 2 days.

cheers - Paul

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If you go with the M2's for the kitchen, are you going to play them at the same time as the M50's or 60's or on thier own?

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Hi Paul,

thanks for the thoughts. I would play them at the same time hooked up to the same receiver (the 50's or 60's on 'A' and the M2's on 'B').

I presently have something kind of similar with different speakers so I know that the bass from the living room does make its presence known in the kitchen. And I do need small speakers for the kitchen! Even the M2s are pushing it, but I don't know that I can get good sound out of anything really tiny, and I don't think that in-ceiling or wall speakers are likely to sound great.

But, no matter what I do the speakers in the kitchen are going to be positioned sub-optimally. It's not a huge deal though since I'm not doing any serious 'critical' listening there - that will happen in the living room.

Thanks for the info on the finishes - I'll call for a few samples.

Bill

My suggestion, and one that "I" like because it's just exactly what I have-is to go with a pair of M50s for mains, and a pair of M3s for the other set!(But yeah, the M3 is, unfortunately, a bit larger than the M2)

They sound nearly identical to each other and the M3s are a great Stand-Alone pair. In a small space they work very well without a sub.(I swapped out my other speakers in the dining room system with my surround M3s the other day to see exactly how they work, and they are a wonderfull speaker in that application!) I even had another post just last night stating that my future plans are for M3s in the dining room AND, later, in the kitchen! Really!!

M3s and M50s are not for everybody, but for those predisposed toward that type of sound, they work just great!

Hey!! Something to think about!!
Rich.