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#147885 - 09/18/06 09:17 PM M22 Question
LHawes Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 71
I really love my M22's, as a matter of fact I seem to enjoy them more each time I turn them on but I was wondering why they are so bass light from what seems to be no accidental design decision.

I was wondering why Axion didn't put a third slightly larger midwoofer type speaker and cover another 10 - 20 hz lower than the present design thereby creating the perfect full range bookshelf speaker.

As the current design sits I have to choose between listening to the wonderful mids and highs but not enough bass or adding a subbie which I did.

I think it might be bad form to discuss such things or perhaps they have been discussed way too much but I would LOVE, let's say, an 'M35' with the M22's current tweeter plus the M22's current 5.25" AND the M3's 6.5" woofer. Would that be a GREAT speaker or am I missing something - like maybe canibalizing sales from the M60?

I would buy it tomorrow. What do you think?

Edited by LHawes (09/18/06 09:19 PM)

#147886 - 09/18/06 11:34 PM Re: M22 Question [Re: LHawes]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10454
Larry, I think that my M22s aren't at all "bass light" within their designed range(which is fine for nearly all music, pipe organ excepted). Simply replacing one of the mid-woofers with the 6 1/2" from the M3 wouldn't make a significant difference; the M22's bass extension is just as deep as the M3's.

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.

#147887 - 09/19/06 12:54 AM Re: M22 Question [Re: JohnK]
bridgman Offline

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5527
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Yep. You would need a larger cabinet to get real decent bass out of the 6.5" driver. Remember the M40 ? Now *those* had nice bass, albeit thanks to a 3-foot tall cabinet, and a number of us wondered about adding a 5.25" driver to the M40 to get a 3-way system.

The real issue, I suspect, is that home theater sales, ie systems where you can pretty much guarantee the presence of a subwoofer, outnumber "pure music system" sales by about 10 to 1 in almost every sales channel, and the M22 is a better speaker "with sub" than the 3-way bookshelf speaker you were discussing.

I think that was why the M40s didn't sell well -- if you already had a subwoofer, the M40 didn't offer much benefit over the M3.

WITHOUT a subwoofer the M40s are wonderful speakers and in a totally different league from the M3s. I still think the M40 configuration (2-way with a big enough cabinet for good bass extension) is my favorite for pure music applications.

Edited by bridgman (09/19/06 01:03 AM)

#147888 - 09/19/06 02:16 AM Re: M22 Question [Re: bridgman]
St_PatGuy Offline

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7428
Loc: Glendale, Arizona

I still think the M40 configuration (2-way with a big enough cabinet for good bass extension) is my favorite for pure music applications

I agree. Like you said before, the M40s are ideal bedroom speakers. I still haven't mastered the art of sub integration in a two channel system, and the M40s are wonderful at being able to reproduce most music in a small setting by themselves.
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

#147889 - 09/19/06 07:53 PM Re: M22 Question [Re: LHawes]
LHawes Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 71
Hey thanks for the thoughtful replies. I have a lot to learn about speakers and didn't even knoe thw M40 ever existed. I guess I'm just destined for some M60's and trying to put it off. Thanks again for the replies.


#147890 - 09/19/06 08:41 PM Re: M22 Question [Re: LHawes]
bridgman Offline

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5527
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Here's a review on the M40 :

Don't forget about the M50s while you are looking around. They don't get reviewed as much but by all accounts are very nice speakers, with all of the positives of the M40 plus midrange which is more like M3 than M40...

Edited by bridgman (09/19/06 08:43 PM)

#147891 - 09/19/06 08:48 PM Re: M22 Question [Re: LHawes]
JasonEuc Offline

Registered: 05/29/06
Posts: 30
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA

I think what you're describing is the M50's... :-) Sorry, I'm not aware of what the M40's were, since they were from my pre-Axiom awareness time period.

Unless the speakers must be on a "bookshelf", and as long as you're serious about wanting bass, there's really no benefit to the bookshelf style over the M50 towers. The larger cabinet of the 50's will provide the bass extension you're seeking. I've never wished my 50's were a 3-way design, because I love the way they sound as a 2-way. So smooth...

Kind of like engines, there's no substitute for cubic inches.

Edited by JasonEuc (09/19/06 08:50 PM)
- JasonEuc M50's, CC370, M3's, Rotel RSX-965, Integra DPC 7.5, Harmony 688

#147892 - 09/19/06 10:46 PM Re: M22 Question [Re: JasonEuc]
LHawes Offline
old hand

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 71
Yeah I probably am describing the M50's as I read through the threads and thanks for that M40 link. I know I'll be sticking with my M22's for a while and upgrading will certainly not be an easy decision when that time comes.

#147893 - 09/19/06 11:16 PM Re: M22 Question [Re: LHawes]
bridgman Offline

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5527
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Seriously, if you have a sub with the M22s stop worrying. When it's time to upgrade, get a better sub.

If you move to a much bigger room, think hard about bigger speakers. Enjoy !!

#147894 - 09/20/06 12:46 PM Re: M22 Question [Re: LHawes]
alan Offline

Registered: 01/29/02
Posts: 3194
Loc: Toronto/New York/Dwight
Hi LHawes,

Relative to JohnK's comments on the "bass-light" M22s, I just returned from doing a bunch of double-blind listening tests at Axiom. One of the comparisons (I didn't know what was behind the curtain), included a pair of M22s wall-mounted using Full Metal Brackets.

I couldn't believe the increase in bass output of the M22s bracket-mounted versus M22s on stands. Ian pointed out that he measured a 9-dB increase in the M22s bass output when you wall-mount them on brackets. So if you want more bass output from the M22s, and you aren't using a sub, put 'em on the wall on a pair of brackets.

At the time I was switching back and forth during the blind sessions, I was speculating that Ian had developed a "perfect" new speaker with all the virtues of the M22s plus really solid bass. And I knew one of the pairs I was auditioning was higher up so I figured it had to be something on a wall. When the curtain was drawn after the tests, I was flabbergasted.
Alan Lofft,
Axiom Resident Expert

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