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Forums » General Discussion » Technical Questions » Emotiva MPS-1 shutting down? Amp gurus help
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#162474 - 04/02/07 08:39 PM
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![]() connoisseur Registered: 04/06/05 Posts: 2339 Loc: Madisonville, KY |
Quote: I just happened to be in the Emotiva lab Friday while Robert and Dan were doing the second of these procedures for another unamed client. I watched as they tested an amp module using a subwoofer. I can attest that the amp was pushing beyond 300 watts. I will have more to say later about my visit with Emotiva. I also went back today and bought an MMC-1. |
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#162475 - 04/02/07 10:33 PM
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![]() shareholder in the making ![]() Registered: 04/02/03 Posts: 16437 Loc: Ben Lomond, California |
Here's an analogy:
Randy: Doctor, when I try to maintain my 100-yard dash pace throughout the marathon, I end up puking after the first 1.5 miles. What's wrong? Doctor: Nothing's wrong. Stop doing that. ![]() I do see how wanting an amp to perform to its specs is desirable, even if you'll never have to use the rated capacity without earplugs, isn't really all that strange. I'm sure Emotiva is grateful for your out-of-the-lab, real world tests and feedback.
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I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you. |
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#162476 - 04/03/07 10:27 AM
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![]() shareholder in the making ![]() Registered: 01/29/04 Posts: 13567 Loc: Iowa |
Ok, here is my latest information from Emotiva, without going into great detail on their amp design.
"I really can’t go to deep into the design or operation of the wave form limiter as this is technology that is proprietary. What I can do is give you a basic overview of what it does. This type of limiter is what would normally be found in broadcast equipment like what is used at radio stations, television stations etc. It is used and employed to prevent the outgoing signal from clipping and the same principle of operation applies here. The limiter looks at the incoming signal in relation to the output as well as a number of other variables like current draw, rail voltage, etc. To understand what it does, you need to understand what the design criteria of the amp is. The EPM-300 amplifiers are designed to produce 300 watts RMS into a 4 ohm load unclipped. If the amplifier is pushed beyond this point a normal amplifier will go into clipping which could easily cause damage to the speakers. You see when an amplifier clips the distorted wave form starts to square off which generates harmonics across the bandwidth relative to the fundamental frequency. It is these harmonics that contribute to an increase in power output from the amp that will super heat the voice coils and cause them to expand and deform where by they will either rub against the motor structure and fail or will simply burn through the wire in the voice coil again casing the speakers to fail and to make it all worse this is not always apparent as the distortion is often masked by the level of the fundamental frequencies. Now with the limiter, if the amp is pushed beyond the designed levels, the limiter will engage where by reshaping the wave form and bringing it within a safe operating range and thereby protecting the speakers. So by removing R12, you will deactivate the limiter and the amp will now go into clipping which could cause possible damage to your speakers. So are you getting more power without the limiter? Not really, you see the amp will still only produce 300 watts RMS clean into a 4 ohm load, but now it can be pushed well beyond that but the signal will now be clipped." So I really have a decision to make here guys and I need your help. I know the 80's can handle gobs of power according to my above statements, but what good is that if the amp driving them is clipping? I really love this amp as the sound/power is great, however, once in a while when I audition, people like to hear something cranked up a bit. If I can't go past +3 on my Denon knob once in awhile without the dang thing shutting down, what good is it... I could with the Denon, however, I could easily notice the Denon was straining and clipping, it must not have the same limiter inside. This drives me nutzzzzzz.
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M80s-VP180-4xM22ow-4xM3ic-EP600-2xEP350 Anthem AVM60 Outlaw 7700 Emotiva A500 Epson 5040UB |
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#162477 - 04/03/07 10:47 AM
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![]() shareholder in the making ![]() Registered: 04/02/03 Posts: 16437 Loc: Ben Lomond, California |
Quote: Did you buy the Emotiva for you or for people?? If it only shuts down when you play it louder than you'd ever listen to, I fail to see any real problem. The M80s can handle gobs of clean power, but clipped power can damage any speaker. The choice is simple: If you can get over the fact that you can't successfully demo TEH AWESUM P0WER that the Emotiva is capable of (in the lab, at least), then keep it. If it'll eat at you constantly, return it.
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I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you. |
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#162478 - 04/03/07 10:59 AM
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![]() shareholder in the making ![]() Registered: 01/29/04 Posts: 13567 Loc: Iowa |
I don't think you guys are following everything. You have to keep in mind my room is 8,000+ cubic feet, a lot of volume to fill.
100-106dB's from 12ft away is loud, but I don't think it is apples to apples say for someone in a 12 x 15 room or so. Randy
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M80s-VP180-4xM22ow-4xM3ic-EP600-2xEP350 Anthem AVM60 Outlaw 7700 Emotiva A500 Epson 5040UB |
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#162479 - 04/03/07 11:02 AM
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![]() connoisseur ![]() Registered: 07/26/06 Posts: 2102 Loc: Hollywood. (Canadian @ <3) |
Randy,
Like pmbuko says, how often are you really going to be listening to those levels? On the other hand, if you are the type of person that it will just bug you when you're watching movies at reference level (75db) and knowing that you can't go over 100db...and it is constantly on your mind, then I would return the Emotiva, get a different amp that can give you the levels you are wanting. Perhaps call Axiom about their 8 channel amp and see when it will be released ![]() I am one of those types of people that wants everything to be perfect, something like this would indeed bother me greatly and I would probably return the amp. Just my 2 cents! -Hutz |
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#162480 - 04/03/07 11:13 AM
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![]() aficionado ![]() Registered: 02/07/04 Posts: 537 Loc: Winterpeg |
I say return it and look for a good used amp on Audiogon. If you are only using it for the 80s it shouldn't be too hard to find a reasonably priced 2 channel amp that will do the job.
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2xM80 VP180 2xQS8 2xM3 HSU STF3 LG 60PS11 Denon 3808 ATI 1506 LCR 2xATI 1502 Oppo BDP-83 |
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#162481 - 04/03/07 11:28 AM
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![]() shareholder in the making ![]() Registered: 01/29/04 Posts: 13567 Loc: Iowa |
thanks Lorenzo,
My goal in all of this was to eventually to drive my entire system with this modular/chassis amp design. Being a monoblock design, you can add modules as budget allows. I already have 3 amps driving my l/c/r with plans to purchase their 2-channel modules for the surrounds. Having everything in one chassis and saving space was plus also.
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M80s-VP180-4xM22ow-4xM3ic-EP600-2xEP350 Anthem AVM60 Outlaw 7700 Emotiva A500 Epson 5040UB |
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#162482 - 04/03/07 11:36 AM
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![]() aficionado ![]() Registered: 02/07/04 Posts: 537 Loc: Winterpeg |
There are 3 channel Acurus amps at 200 WPC that run around $500 - $600 on Audiogon all the time. Other good amps for the $$$, ATI, Sherbourn, Sunfire Cinema Grand, Marantz Ma 700 monoblocks, Marantz mm9000.
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2xM80 VP180 2xQS8 2xM3 HSU STF3 LG 60PS11 Denon 3808 ATI 1506 LCR 2xATI 1502 Oppo BDP-83 |
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#162483 - 04/03/07 11:57 AM
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![]() shareholder in the making ![]() Registered: 05/03/03 Posts: 18044 Loc: NoVA |
Isn't 100dB at the listening position 100dB, no matter how big the room is? I'm confused.
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I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON! |
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