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#17028 - 08/09/03 04:23 PM Re: Hear No Evil: 2.58 litres milk. 1.53 teaspo
Saturn Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 1041
Loc: Toronto Ontario Canuck
What? You guys don't like pork fat?
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#17029 - 08/09/03 07:39 PM Re: Hear No Evil: 2.58 litres milk. 1.53 teaspo
KC_Mike Offline
local

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 209
Loc: KS
Hmmm..I am getting hungry.

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#17030 - 08/10/03 03:46 AM Re: Hear No Evil: another essay
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17920
Loc: NoVA
This article rocks. This is why I'm a skeptic. In some areas...

http://www.users.qwest.net/~jcosta3/article_dragon.htm


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#17031 - 08/10/03 03:50 AM Re: Hear No Evil: another essay
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16349
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Ah 2x6, your dream of 'riding an electron' treads into the domain of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. Electrons (and other subatomic particles) are such flightly beasts that you can either get an accurate measurement of their motion or their position, but not both. Quantum mechanics is a bitch.
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I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

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#17032 - 08/10/03 03:58 AM Re: Hear No Evil: another essay
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17920
Loc: NoVA
Quantum. Can't live with 'em, wouldn't exist without 'em.
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#17033 - 08/10/03 04:04 AM Re: Hear No Evil: another essay
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2729
Loc: CA, USA
Exactly, my friend pmbuko! That's why authoritative pronouncements that wire cannot make a difference in audio sound output is perhaps a bit immodest.
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#17034 - 08/10/03 04:05 AM Re: Hear No Evil: another essay
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2729
Loc: CA, USA
Kcarlile, you post some really funny stuff!!
_________________________
Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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#17035 - 08/10/03 04:18 AM Re: Hear No Evil: another essay
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17920
Loc: NoVA
That's 'cause I often post when I'm not thinking straight!
_________________________
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

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#17036 - 08/10/03 11:05 AM Re: Hear No Evil: another essay
chesseroo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 5013
Loc: western canada
The comments that scientists are somehow 'skeptics' is absurd. The term skeptic applies to both sides equally with each side being skeptical of the other's idea or beliefs.

Ken, that essay by Sagan is outstanding and it defines the underlying problem in discussing the audio issues in a very succinct way.
There are two passages that he writes which exemplify my feelings and approach to these unproven ideas:

"Your inability to invalidate my hypothesis is not at all the same thing as proving it true. Claims that cannot be tested, assertions immune to disproof are veridically worthless, whatever value they may have in inspiring us or in exciting our sense of wonder. What I'm asking you to do comes down to believing, in the absence of evidence, on my say-so".
I think his statement says it all quite well.

As for the second statement, here is exactly why people begin the arguments about audio:
"Once again, the only sensible approach is tentatively to reject the dragon hypothesis, to be open to future physical data, and to wonder what the cause might be that so many apparently sane and sober people share the same strange delusion."
The key phrase here is "tentatively to reject". Those whose believe a concept (like speaker break-in for example), have taken a leap of faith and not tentatively rejected the hypothesis while others have taken the more systematic approach. The arguments arise when the masses of faith meets the masses of the unproved.

If one is to inform others properly about these controversial audio ideas, then at least promote them NOT as fact, but ONLY as a personal belief and have the decency to also inform them of the other possibilities that exist. As true evidence comes about, then present that information so it can be reviewed by all. Note for the masses of the faith, newspaper articles, statements from the general public and magazine clippings do not cut the mustard as credible sources for the masses of the unproved.

I thought fhw and PlainHaven have a superb perspective on the scientific method and its underlying principles. The posts were excellent reading.

_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#17037 - 08/10/03 01:13 PM Re: Hear No Evil: another essay
2x6spds Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 03/16/02
Posts: 2729
Loc: CA, USA
Chess says:

"If one is to inform others properly about these controversial audio ideas, then at least promote them NOT as fact, but ONLY as a personal belief and have the decency to also inform them of the other possibilities that exist."

======================================

Back at ya, Chess!
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Enjoy the Music. Trust your ears. Laugh at Folks Who Claim to Know it All.

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