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#171349 - 07/10/07 07:39 PM Re: 2 channel or multichannel which you prefer? [Re: JKP005]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16437
Loc: Ben Lomond, California

I have a Sony SACD player with mods done by an outside company and the sound is beyond my ability to put into words.

Was it also beyond the outside company's ability to put the differences made by their mods on a chart or two (or three)? I have an unmodded Sony SACD player and with the right disc, the audio is stellar.
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

#171350 - 07/12/07 08:31 PM Love those old black vinyl disks in stereo [Re: ereed]
arkiedan Offline

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 8
Hope I'm not the only one here still using a turntable? I listen to those big black disks in 2-channel usually, unless it's an old "quad" encoded disk. Then I listen in surround.

And, some cds sound better in stereo, to me anyway. Others are mixed for multi-channel and sound best that way, again, to me anyway.

I haven't treated my present room but my last listening room was great for stereo. Back in those days we called it "live end-dead end" treatment and 2-channel was very close to multi. The deal was to deaden the forward walls and leave the back and side walls behind the listener hard and live. Properly done, stereo was amazingly close to the original recording. Come to think of it, I wish I could treat my new room that way but sadly I can't.

#171351 - 07/12/07 08:40 PM Re: Love those old black vinyl disks in stereo [Re: arkiedan]
Mojo Offline

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4698

Can you please describe for us where exactly you put deadening material and what that material was?

#171352 - 07/13/07 07:56 AM Re: Love those old black vinyl disks in stereo [Re: Mojo]
arkiedan Offline

Registered: 07/12/07
Posts: 8

Many years ago I was reading one of those now defunct hifi mags and they had a tech article on room treatment explaining live end-dead end (lede). Understand - this was before such things were generally known and I and many others were very intrigued.

Since I had a fairly new audio/video room downstairs I had to try it. I treated my room, a fairly large basement rectangle, with a compressed fiberglass matting (can't remember what it was called) between 2X6 framing I installed, just like a standard home fiberglass job. I found some black and dark maroon fabrics (thin and open like speaker fabric) to cover the entire area and installed that in sections over the whole deal. The treatment did a great job of deadening the forward, speaker end of the room.

The idea was to completely deaden eveything but the ceiling back to just short of the listening position and to leave everything beside and behind the listener hard drywall. The floor was, of course, well-carpeted.

The treatment, in addition to deadening any reverberation forward of the listener allowed for reverb beside and behind the listener. Without understanding the physics involved everyone who used LEDE was amazed at the open, airy sound. As I recall it had little affect on bass but that wasn't a consideration at the time. The mids and highs were open and gloriously clear.

This was viable, by the way, because the room was out of the way and because my wife (not an audiophile) rarely came down to listen so there were no decor objections. It was very plain and all business.

Hope that answers your question. I'm sure there are far better solutions today but none this inexpensive.

By the way, back then I was using Adcom amps and the first Lexicon surround processor with a Pioneer Elite pre-amp. Now I use an old Sony Es receiver. My Onkyo 805 is on the way right now so I'll finally get to play with the newer surround sound processing you fellows all talk about. Can't wait. Still, I'll be listening to those records in two-channel until I can't hear any more (maybe, and sadly, sooner than I think).

See ya, arkiedan

Edited by arkiedan (07/13/07 08:08 AM)

#171353 - 07/16/07 12:20 AM Re: Love those old black vinyl disks in stereo [Re: arkiedan]
oldskoolboarder Offline

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
Currently, add me to the preferred 2 channel group.

I just got my dedicated 2 channel system set up. Von Schweikert VR1s, Sophia Electric Baby tube amp w/ a whopping 8W, Rotel 1070 pre amp, Project Debut TT and an iPhone (yes you read that right). I just moved so my HT setup is still on boxes. I finally have space to use my "extra" gear for a 2nd setup. The room is half glass with windows that probably won't be treated. The room is pretty "hot" but loving the sound regardless.

I'm once again re-appreciating my vinyl. I've listed to some Cuban jazz, George Benson and now I'm listening to Julia Fordham's first album. MP3's are pretty impressive from the line out on my iPhone. Because of this board, I tried Rodrigo y Gabriela and it's sounded incredible on my iPhone.

Lovin it...

#171354 - 09/27/07 09:10 PM Re: 2 channel or multichannel which you prefer? [Re: Mojo]
haylo75 Offline

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 132
Loc: Kansas City, MO USA
This thread was very informative. Thanks to everyone I've been playing around with PLIIx in earnest after receiving my A1400-8. I have to say I prefer it over 2 channel for a lot of stuff now. Using my RSX-1057 I have the following options and ranges. I surmise that DPLIIx is implemented the same universally across all receivers/pre-pros, but using it on my RSX-1057 is my first exposure to it. My current settings are in parentheses.
  • Panorama: On/Off (Off)
  • Dimension: 0-6 (3-4)
  • Center Width: 0-7 (2-3)
Honestly, vastly different settings sound much better on different recordings, but I tire of continually tweaking after awhile. For my setup, the above settings seem to be the sweet spot. I still switch back to just the M80s when I'm in the mood or when a recording just doesn't work well with PLIIx.
A: Epic 80 * 600 / Integra DTC-9.8 / A1400-8
V: Samsung HL-S6187W / Tosh HD-XA2 / PS3 / Oppo 970HD

#171355 - 09/27/07 09:47 PM Re: 2 channel or multichannel which you prefer? [Re: haylo75]
Mojo Offline

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4698
That pretty much mirrors my settings but also have a look at and experiment with point 7 below:

I spent hundreds of hours tweaking my system and at least 60 hours on the EP600. This included moving speakers around.

So here were my conclusions from the whole experience in my 4,000 cubic foot, bright room:

1. EP600 sub moved away from the corner.

2. EP600 set to flat and no cross-over and calibrated to 80dB.

3. All speakers set to small. They are not all calibrated to 75dB as I had to adjust some by ear to get the desired effects (see link below).

4. Denon x-over at 60Hz for stereo and 80Hz for all movies.

5. Denon x-over at 80Hz for PLIIx movies and music.

6. Stereo: listen at calibrated levels.

7. PLIIx for music: for some pieces (jazz and classical), lower the volume on the fronts by 5dB to deepen the sound-stage. For all other pieces, use calibrated levels. For some other pieces, go to a phantom centre.

8. PLIIx for TV/cable: calibrated levels

9. PLIIx for movies: calibrated levels but sometimes boost the center as required. A couple of times I used a phantom center.

10. Dolby and DTS for music and movies: calibrated levels with some minor and movie-dependent adjustment on the centre.

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