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#182857 - 11/10/07 02:39 PM Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80&#8217;s [Re: Wid]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11473
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
If the design is indeed different than past designs, then I guess I need to know WHAT that difference means.

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#182858 - 11/10/07 02:41 PM Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80&#8217;s [Re: CV]
Ken.C Offline
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Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17932
Loc: NoVA
Thing is, it's not. It's the same feature that Yamaha, Denon, whoever's been offering for the last few years or so. You just redesignate those back amps to the front speakers.
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#182861 - 11/10/07 02:52 PM Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80&#8217;s [Re: Ken.C]
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
Mo ... if I went out and installed a second drive shaft from the transmission to the rear end of my Ford truck I would then be doubling the HP and torque value rating of my truck, right? 1,100 ft pounds of torque in a stock 3/4 ton pickup truck, wow.

Isn't this basically what you are saying?
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#182884 - 11/10/07 04:21 PM Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80&#8217;s [Re: RickF]
Mojo Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3430
You know what the caveat to this whole thing is? You can't exceed the maximum voltage of each amplifier. Since they're all connected in parallel, you can source three times the current but the rail voltage doesn't change. You'd have to find a very low impedance speaker to take advantage of the extra current. Having the current doesn't do any good if you experience voltage collapse.

The rail voltage of my Denon is about 35 volts. The A1400 on the other hand has a rail voltage of around 90V.

So why do they offer this then? Is it for low impedance speakers (like 2 Ohm) or is it so that you can double up on fronts?

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#182886 - 11/10/07 05:02 PM Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80&#8217;s [Re: Mojo]
Ken.C Offline
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Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17932
Loc: NoVA
Nope, it's marketing. Plain and simple.

From what I've read, the only real benefit to biamping comes with a) extremely high volumes and b) external, active crossovers, neither of which you will achieve with a receiver.


Edited by kcarlile (11/10/07 05:03 PM)
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#182887 - 11/10/07 05:11 PM Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80&#8217;s [Re: Ken.C]
EFalardeau Offline
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Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3288
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
I think there is some confusion between bi-amping and bridging. Bridging does mean combining two channels on the receiver into one. Bridging is much rarer as a feature.
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#182889 - 11/10/07 05:22 PM Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80&#8217;s [Re: EFalardeau]
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 17932
Loc: NoVA
I don't think I've ever seen bridging on a receiver, but that would certainly double the power.

I think someone told me awhile back that there are very few amps that can bridge into 4 ohms.
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#182890 - 11/10/07 05:33 PM Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80&#8217;s [Re: EFalardeau]
Mojo Online   content
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 3430
Actually I had two lapses in thinking:

1. In the case of disconnecting the strap and using the rear channels for bi-amping, I neglected the fact that the two speaker halves each have a larger impedance while the available rail voltage has not increased. There may still be a marginal benefit but I doubt it's of any practical significance.

2. In the case of multi-channel connected to the fronts, the speaker impedance doesn't change but the rail voltage remains the same. More current is available but without voltage there is no "pressure" to push the current out.

However, if anyone has low impedance speakers (say a couple of Ohms), both of these ways would power them very well.

So I'm glad I drew that block diagram for myself \:\) .

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#182891 - 11/10/07 05:41 PM Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80&#8217;s [Re: Ken.C]
EFalardeau Offline
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Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3288
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
Onkyo-875 has that (not the 805), but they don't support 4Ohm bridged.
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
Audiobytes! 2M22! 2VP150!

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#182897 - 11/10/07 06:55 PM Re: Anyone using the Denon 3808CI and M80&#8217;s [Re: EFalardeau]
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6754
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

All the home amps I have seen that can be bridged recommend a minimum of 8 ohms in bridged mode.
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