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#221238 - 09/16/08 01:06 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: Ken.C]
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16437
Loc: Ben Lomond, California
Just wait until it gets caught in a jet engine.
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

#221239 - 09/16/08 01:10 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: pmbuko]
EFalardeau Offline

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3400
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
 Originally Posted By: pmbuko
Just wait until it gets caught in a jet engine.
Yeah, that might elevate his position...
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)

#221245 - 09/16/08 02:03 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: EFalardeau]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10415
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
I for one am very interested in hearing a modded set of M22s. I have stated I would mod my M22s as per Ninja's kind offer and I would have access to another set of M22s for some A/B testing. I am for anything I can get for free.


#221251 - 09/16/08 02:32 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: SirQuack]
PeterChenoweth Offline

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
 Originally Posted By: sirquack
PeterC, per the forum rules, we as members are not allowed to discuss "for sale" or "wanted" items. In some respects, Ninja and followers trying to push his product is no different.

That is a very good point and certainly true. I was not thinking of this from the 'invading seller' perspective.

It's a fine line. Since he is asking for Axiom's input on the testing, and has said that he asked Axiom if it's ok to even be here, then I feel like it's less of a 'for sale' post and more of an informative thing. But I do understand how others could be offended/angry, looking at it from the other perspective.
M80v2 | VP150v2 | QS8v2
SVS Pci+ 20-39
Emotiva UMC-1 & LPA-1
M22ti + T-Amp, in the Office

#221252 - 09/16/08 02:40 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: PeterChenoweth]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13571
Loc: Iowa
Never angry/offended, we just got Axiom's back. \:\) We've got lots of skills, you know bo hunting skills, ninja skills. \:\)
Anthem AVM60 Outlaw 7700 Emotiva A500 Epson 5040UB

#221253 - 09/16/08 02:42 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: PeterChenoweth]
woofersus Offline

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 32
Loc: Mount Vernon, OH
He didn't come here to try to sell stuff, he came here because there was a thread about his products. I only started it to say "hey, there's a cool product you guys should take a look at."

This really is different from me coming here to say "I've got some speakers for sale" or even the Ninja coming on the boards and starting a FS thread about his products.

As various products are discussed here, wouldn't you want those responsible for the companies making them to chime in? I'd think the input would be interesting and valuable.

It was a notification thread, and discussion ensued. Axiom graciously offered to do some testing, and now everybody is sort of waiting for that to happen. I don't really see the analogy to a FS/FT thread.

EDIT: I suppose if you had originally assumed me to be an official representative it may have come off that way. I hadn't ever thought of the possibility until it was mentioned, tbh.

Edited by woofersus (09/16/08 02:43 PM)
Tim Evans
East Street Audio

#221280 - 09/16/08 08:09 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: SirQuack]
fredk Offline

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7786
Loc: Canada
We've got lots of skills

Aiming skills. \:o

Nervously checks back...

Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

#221293 - 09/16/08 10:13 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: fredk]
tomtuttle Offline

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 8488
Loc: Tacoma
I think we need some double-blind testing on the quality of Ken's work relative to hair length.

As to the rest, whatever floats your parade, as long as it doesn't rain on my boat. Or something.
bibere usque ad hilaritatem

#221513 - 09/18/08 08:32 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: tomtuttle]
synthguy Offline

Registered: 09/14/08
Posts: 5
Loc: Missouri
I'm one of those "snake oil" guys, but you'd best think again if you assume I'm just another yahoo blindly enamored with high dollar everything.

Electronic components make a difference. So do cables. If you go into a mastering house, one of those places you take your finished master recording to be "mastered" into an album quality product fit for stamping into CDs, you'll see something amazing. There are electronics that cost tens of thousands of dollars. There are cables that sometimes cost thousands of dollars. It isn't priced like that because someone sold the whole world of mastering houses a load of serpent fluid. Engineers made these decisions when audio recording and production reached the point that recordings were within a few decibels of the live performance. The engineers who made these arcane devices made them with expensive discreet capacitors, resistors, transistors and other components. Sometimes they use high purity copper wire, sometimes silver. They use this stuff because the changes that are made to the sound of our recordings is some kind of black magic. The signal is distorted, but in a way which makes the ear very happy.

Every one of the components in your stereos and HT rigs change the sound from the original recordings. The secret of audiophile and studio gear is to use expensive components to work some kind of synergistic magic, so that the speaker elements that throw air waves at you make you think you're listening to a live performance. And guess what? The frequency response curve isn't as important as what your ears are telling you.

That may sound like some kind of audio heresy on the scale of wife swapping or something, but it makes sense if you understand what it represents, and that's the boundaery of the waveform bumping against your eardrums. And think, how many speakers with fairly flat frequency measurements sound flat, lifeless, or downright bad? One flat speaker can have you walking away, while another speaker can fix you in the listening position until hunger or the store closing (or your significant other) yanks you away? And even more interesting, another speaker with a few deviations in the frequency response can sound much better. And even more, a frequency graph will tell you absolutely nothing about how deep the soundstage is or how well the speaker images. And here's a kicker: a flat high end curve can still sound as shrieky and unpleasant.

You might be horrified to know that the frequency curve at your listening position can undulate like the Alps. But it obviously makes you happy or you'd send the speakers back with a letter as subtle as a napalm strike, right?

The reason a speaker sounds incredible is all about the synergy between the crossover, cabinet and speaker elements. And even your source, amp and cables figure into this. Your system is a musical instrument, just like a violin, and the more cost put into it, the better it's going to sound. A few of you get defensive when it's implied the Axiom line can be improved, despite the knowledge that Axiom themselves have and are continuing to upgrade their designs. And how many times have you read "These Axiom speakers are a great buy for the price," or "An unbeatable value for the price."

Hint: things can be better. How much better is up to debate and in person listening, but still. Axiom isn't putting B&W, Sonus Fabre, Thiel or Vienna Acoustics out of business. And let's face it, there's a company called Aperion which might be showing up the Axioms in a few ways as they are.

Some of you might scoff, but others might like to click here to peek into the mind of a speaker maker of some renoun, Tony Gee, famous among the DIY community as well as a few speaker company heads. This guy doesn't fool around. Articles like these among others are evidence that using high end components can improve the sound of a speaker, sometimes dramatically.

Before I even heard of Skiing Ninja, I'd decided I was going to contact Axiom and see if I could convince them to employ these high end components in their crossover. In fact, I'm determined to. You might ask why I'm being so picky over a speaker line as highly regarded as the Axiom. I could just take the easy route and go buy some B&Ws, Vienna Acoustics or Thiels, but I really want to buy some Axioms. It's because they captured my heart, from the elegance of their speakers to the people who make up the company. But I'm a studio guy and an audiophile, and I want some Axioms made with as little compromise as I can afford. Both for my stereo and my studio room to use as monitors.

In fact, if some of this discussion nudges the good people up north to produce a line of high end speakers along with the stuff they sell now, I'd be more than happy. I'd pay twice the price for an M600, for example, which could go toe to toe with anything from B&W, Sonus Faber, Thiel or Vienna. They would be more lovely, and they would be more affordable. And the old lines could continue to sell just fine. I don't think anyone would have any problem with that. ;\)

#221515 - 09/18/08 09:01 PM Re: Skiing Ninja offering M22v2 upgrade [Re: synthguy]
Hansang Offline

Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 602
Loc: New York
I have Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Baby Grand in my other place. But I actually prefer M80 setup. Of course a lot more goes into sound than just speakers (receiver, sound reflection etc.) but *overall* I like the M80's better.
Denon 4520, EPIC80/500/VP180 Speakers

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