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#234706 - 12/13/08 07:10 PM Re: Is there any copper in those wires? [Re: Warrant]
fredk Offline

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 7718
Loc: Canada
Don't go too far, there is always next week.

Blujays1: Spending Fred's money one bottle at a time, no two... Oh crap!

#234713 - 12/13/08 09:10 PM Re: Is there any copper in those wires? [Re: Micah]
myrison Offline

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 1898
Loc: Austin, TX
 Originally Posted By: Micah
Off to Radio Shack I go.

Micah - if you were serious, don't go to Radio Shack. Their cables are incredibly marked up and overpriced. Look at for a good combination of quality and price.

Epic 80-800: HG Cherry | HT Pics

#234786 - 12/14/08 12:45 PM Re: Is there any copper in those wires? [Re: myrison]
Micah Offline

Registered: 11/16/08
Posts: 1789
Loc: Indiana you hoser!!!!
No sarcasm at all. I've been spending a great deal of time on the supplied links in this thread & crying over all the wasted money I've spent over the years on previous systems. I would estimate (this is no joke) that I had a good $750 dollars spent on wire in my last HTS, & that DOES NOT include the Monster Cable Power Conditioner/Surge Protector that I dropped a good $150 on.

No that was certainly a sincere post. I do employ sarcasm in many of my posts (I'm a sarcastic guy by nature, but good hearted... I use sarcasm for humor, not degregation), but I have truely been completely taken back by the information I've just been exposed to. Where the hell have they been hiding all this stuff???

My comparison to the Matrix is about as close as it gets. I really do feel like I've been brainwashed, and now the truth has set me free. This website just saved me a TON of money!!! Thanks to all who have shown me the light!
My Stuff :

Denon 4802
Emotiva XPA-3
Samsung BD-P3600
Sharp 65 Inch Aquos LCD

#234791 - 12/14/08 01:23 PM Re: Is there any copper in those wires? [Re: Micah]
St_PatGuy Offline

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7463
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Micah, for our services you owe us roughly $800.

"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

#234792 - 12/14/08 01:27 PM Re: Is there any copper in those wires? [Re: St_PatGuy]
CV Offline
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club
shareholder in the making

Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 11585
Loc: Richland, WA, USA
Sean likes everything roughly.

#234793 - 12/14/08 01:27 PM Re: Is there any copper in those wires? [Re: St_PatGuy]
Warrant Offline

Registered: 10/12/07
Posts: 49
 Originally Posted By: St_PatGuy
Micah, for our services you owe us roughly $800.


\:D \:D \:D

#234798 - 12/14/08 01:48 PM Re: Is there any copper in those wires? [Re: Warrant]
jakewash Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10412
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Micah, the sad part is for every one of you that sees the light there are a few more that get sucked into the dark.


#234803 - 12/14/08 02:02 PM Re: Is there any copper in those wires? [Re: jakewash]
chesseroo Offline

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 5117
Loc: western canada
You have to admit though there is something sexy about cable lifts.
I'm sure they do make a difference.

Mapleshade records couldn't possibly be wrong?
Isn't that sexy sound?

now THAT is serious sarcasm!!
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

#256882 - 04/15/09 11:09 AM Re: Is there any copper in those wires? [Re: chesseroo]
Zimm Offline

Registered: 12/08/08
Posts: 1361
Loc: New Orleans
As part of my learning materials assigned by the many informed forum members trying to unbrainwash me about amps and wires, I came across the following. I am glad to see there is at least some solid support for the concept that the connections used can be a source of problems. Not a big problem, but here humidity is a big issue so corrosion is also a constant process. I recently trimmed my center channel wire and was able to confirm that in less than 1 year the copper had visually corroded. Anyway, enjoy the reading material from Roger Russell

 Originally Posted By: Roger Russell's Audio Distortions

Speaker and Amplifier Connectors

The connection between the power amplifier output terminals and speaker input terminals is almost always a pressure device of some sort. It's unfortunate that these important connections are determined by to how tight you can turn a binding post or screwdriver or by the pressure of a spring which holds the speaker wire against the metal of the terminal. The metals that are forced against each other are often different. They might be brass or steel but plated with other metals. The wire could be copper or silver and perhaps coated with solder containing tin. They expand and contract differently with temperature. They can also become oxidized over time and the connection can become bad to the point where the resistance is significant compared to the resistance in the rest of the circuit. Dissimilar metals can also promote corrosion with action like a battery when they are in a humid environment. This eventually causes not only higher resistance but also clearly audible distortion as if a diode were inserted in series with the speaker and amplifier.

Suppose you have a system with adequately heavy speaker wire but the connections have gone bad over time. Simply removing and cleaning the wires and terminals and reconnecting them can make an audible difference. Incidentally, this is what can happen if the old wire is replaced with a new "miracle" speaker wire. By disturbing the terminals this can "accidentally" improve the contacts when the new wire with its clean surface is installed. A difference can be heard but not because of the new wire. The same change can be heard by simply cleaning the old wire/terminal contacts and reconnecting them.

Ah, you say gold plating takes care of all that. That isn't always true, particularly if the wire is tinned with solder, which is at least 50% tin, and the connecting post is gold plated. Here's what J. J. Whitley, Research Associate at AMP Incorporated (a well-known connector manufacturer) has to say about mating tin-plated contacts with gold. "In most cases, lubricated tin contacts can be mated with gold-plated contacts. This combination works as long as the conditions of contact force and stability for tin contacts are met."

"There is one major exception--where the service conditions involve wet or humid environments. Under these conditions, the gold-tin bimetallic junction is subject to galvanic corrosion. Generous application of protective lubrication is one way to alleviate this problem."

It would seem logical that instead of connecting the output wires inside the power amplifier to the output terminals, the wires should be wrapped and soldered directly to the speaker wires. Then, in turn, the other end of the speaker wires should be wrapped and soldered directly to the speakers, or crossover network. This is not practical, of course, unless the amplifier and speaker are integrated in the same cabinet.

For the truth about speaker wire, see my Speaker Wire History Page.
Speaker Wire History

Panny 3000 PJ, 118" Carada, Denon 3300, PS3, Axiom QS8, PSB 5T, B&W sub, levitating speaker wire

#257059 - 04/16/09 12:24 PM Re: Is there any copper in those wires? [Re: Zimm]
Murph Offline

Registered: 10/05/06
Posts: 6955
Loc: PEI, Canada
While I personally don't feel this article would be useful in an arguement to promote any particular brand or design of speaker wire, I can certainly agree with what is almost humorously the obvious,

Yes, when things break or degrade (corrosion) they certainly don't work as good any more and Yes, it is, of course, better to apply materials and strategies to avoid or prolong the time before degradation.

Side track:: If only most car manufacturers could adopt this philosophy.
With great power comes Awesome irresponsibility.

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