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#52639 - 07/17/04 01:53 AM Re: OT: politics
Ken.C Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 18029
Loc: NoVA
I put it into savings.

And it's my damn country too. I'm staying.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

#52640 - 07/17/04 03:14 AM Re: OT: politics
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16418
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
My money went to savings, too. I want to retire comfortably, send my kids to college, etc. I can put off having all the crap I want until later -- or indefinitely. Stuff is nice, but stuff is just things.

BigWill, I don't hink of myself as poor. It's not the fact that rich people have money that get to me. As a matter of fact, I don't care a whole lot about most rich people. It's the super-uber-filthy rich that I worry about, because they use their wealth to influence. They play by different rules than you and I. And it's this great country that enabled them to amass their great wealth, but they want to give back as little as possible. (I realize they pay a ton more in taxes than you and I, but we're talking percentages here, not totals.)

I have nothing against capitalism as long as it's responsible and forward-looking.
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

#52641 - 07/17/04 03:17 AM Re: OT: politics
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16418
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
In reply to:


I'm definitely not "super ape tit horny"

Those Germans sure have a way with words. (Yes, I know it's supposed to mean super-cool, but the literal translation is just wacky.)
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

#52642 - 07/17/04 12:01 PM Re: OT: politics
bray Offline

Registered: 06/10/04
Posts: 1801
Loc: Colorado
I spent mine on Axiom Loudspeakers.

#52643 - 07/17/04 04:40 PM Re: OT: politics
BigWill Offline

Registered: 05/01/03
Posts: 1951
Loc: Corona, Calif. USA!!!
I bought a 36" TV.

I can't understand why CEOs are paid so much money, but... whatever. Hopefully they'll spend it and invest it here.

The super-rich understand that a large and stable middle class is in their best interests. I was told in college that most of the super rich are actually liberals, but I don't know that to be fact. While it seems odd for the rich to be liberals, there are reasons for it to be so.

The capitalist system that developed during the Industrial Revolution was ugly. Marx, observing that, estimated that people would not stand for such conditions for long. If the sweatshop work conditions and rigid class structures hadn't changed during the last century, we would probably all be comrades right now.

Of course, it was the development of the middle class that Marx did not foresee, and which has extended the longevity of the capitalist system. So long as we are all fat and happy, few will call for drastic change.

Concentrating wealth in the hands of a very few, while the masses are impoverished, would result in a very unstable, and unprofitable, situation for the super-rich. The producers need a market in which to sell their goods. We need to have money to buy those goods and they know that.

Marx argued that the worker must always be alienated from the product of his labor; that is, he won't be able to afford the stuff he makes because the owner will always get his profit (the rich get richer and the poor get poorer). Two thing that prevent this from happening: an "ever-expanding pie" so that we can all get a larger and larger piece (rich get richer and poor get richer, too), and employee discounts.

Whenever politicians pander to the crowd with talk about increasing taxes on the wealthy, putting up protectionist barriers, raising the minimum wage, expanding gov't regulation/bureaucracy, etc..., I immediately question their motivations. Just trying to get elected? (that's it most of the time). Stupid? (hardly ever the case). Possible non-believer in the principles upon which this country is based, IOW - a communist? (sometimes!).

IMO, Clinton, Kerry and Edwards all fall into that first category. That Kucinch (sp?) guy falls into the last category.

This is fun. Don't get mad.

#52644 - 07/17/04 05:22 PM Re: OT: politics
Ajax Offline

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6318
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
Are you talking about little Dennis? He is my congressman. Actually, though well meaning, I think he falls into the 2nd category.

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

#52645 - 07/17/04 07:41 PM Re: OT: politics
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16418
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
Elect Trafficant!
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

#52646 - 07/17/04 08:11 PM Re: OT: politics
Hawkson101 Offline

Registered: 11/06/03
Posts: 359
Loc: wilmette illinois
In reply to:

We need a damn FLAT tax in this country. Just because someone makes 6+ figures doesn't mean they deserve to be taxed at a higher rate. Furthermore, if you want to whine about how the *rich* tax evade behind deductions and such, well a flat tax would end all of that.

People who make excessive incomes do so at the expense of others. CEO's work just as hard as middle management and your average cubicle worker. This is part of capitalism and is 100% acceptable. But, these people are also part of a community and are members of a democracy and they should give back to the community from which they take so much from.

On that note, it is my belief that taxes are too high for everyone. The less money the goverment has the less opportunity they have to waste it. E.G. Going to mars and going to war(needlessly) is preventable by giving the government less money.

Edited by Hawkson101 (07/17/04 08:14 PM)
Once You Pop You Can't Stop

#52647 - 07/18/04 11:54 PM Re: OT: politics
INANE Offline

Registered: 02/04/04
Posts: 1693
Loc: Omaha, Nebraska
I want less gov... but I also want (demand!) a man'd mission to Mars.

HT v2.0 !
HT v1.0

#52648 - 07/19/04 02:25 AM Re: OT: politics
player8 Offline

Registered: 01/19/04
Posts: 521
Loc: PHX/Flagstaff, AZ

I swear I was sitting in my Economics class while reading your post. I'm not sure whether thats a good or bad thing...

My econ Professor wrote a book and he pretty much quotes Marx for his ethos appeal. What you said is exactly what I heard in class three times a week. I do think that your right though.

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