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#85750 - 03/19/05 07:56 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
oldskoolboarder Offline

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
How's the Outlaw Sub? I can't recall any Axiom owners that had one.

#85751 - 03/19/05 10:52 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bridgman Offline

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5590
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>Halos Driving M80s

I think your sig needs an update to reflect your latest configuration :

Halos. Lots of Halos.
M80s. Lots of M80s.

#85752 - 03/19/05 11:11 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Seabear Offline

Registered: 01/03/05
Posts: 365
Loc: Charlottesville, Virginia
That's funny.
What I am really hoping for is that Dennis will run out of projects and figure out a way to combine his cabintry skills with his love of Axioms and fashion 4 more M80s into Surrounds. The Qs80!
Of course there would have to be even MORE Halos!
Axioms; For when you've just Gotta have More Cowbell! 60s 150 350 8s 2is RX-V2500 DVD-C750 2900

#85753 - 03/19/05 11:33 PM Re: Sorry....not impressed
bridgman Offline

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 5590
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
Gawd, I don't even want to think about that. What shape would the cabinets have to be, a dodecahedron or something ? Try folding THAT out of a single sheet with the vinyl already laminated to the front...

#85754 - 03/20/05 12:09 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
oldskoolboarder Offline

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2181
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
OK, what movie was dodecahedron in? The only reason I recall that (12 sided right?) was from a movie.

#85755 - 03/20/05 12:10 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Ken.C Online   content
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/03/03
Posts: 18029
Loc: NoVA
The Phantom Tollbooth. Originally a book, but I'm pretty sure there was a movie, too.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!

#85756 - 03/20/05 12:14 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
St_PatGuy Offline

Registered: 03/07/05
Posts: 7463
Loc: Glendale, Arizona
Yeah, I remember reading the book and watching the movie as a kid. Long time ago.
"Nothin' up my sleeve. . ." --Bullwinkle J. Moose

#85757 - 03/20/05 10:35 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
pmbuko Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 04/02/03
Posts: 16418
Loc: Leesburg, Virginia
The movie was Contact, with Jodie Foster. Originally a Carl Sagan book. The doedecahedron was the space "capsule" she was sitting in during her "did she really or was it all in her head" journey through space.
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you.

#85758 - 03/20/05 11:05 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Tharkun Offline

Registered: 01/05/05
Posts: 1039
Loc: Tracy, California
Since Iím awake at 4 am and can not use power tools, thought I would post my final thoughts on this Jimmy Issue if your are tired of this issue, click and go to a more interesting thread.

In the last several days, I have noticed Jimmy on the forum. I sent him a private message, which I assume he is going to ignore and not reply to, the same as he has done with this thread, make a few
biased statements, then just follow the members posts, without further comments on his part. In my opinion, all he has accomplished is like shooting ones self in the foot. This forum is one of the most knowledgeable and accommodating ones I have ever been a member of. Jimmy had to his advantage a wealth of experience and information and in Ďmyí opinion has really harmed his creditability by taking a few cheap shots at me about how I spend my money. One would assume that since he searched out the Axiom forum, he was serious about being interested in this line of speakers. I have been in cyber for over 20 years, and one can lean what to watch for and have an insight to cyber players, that for what ever reasons are just out to either cause havoc on forums such as this, or to make themselves seem
more knowledgeable about an issue than perhaps they truly are.

When I received Jimmyís PM about his interests in auditioning my system, I checked his bio, noticed he
had joined the forum only a few days prior. Read his posts, and there was nothing to cause concern, seemed like he had done research, and made his choices other than which name to go with for speaker selection. I sent him a PM with my number, within an hour he called. Once again, after talking to him and learning he was a stay at home father, and I explained about my system, made the decision to have him over, since he seemed anxious to make a decision REAL soon, and understanding that excitement, I agreed to an audition.

I was told by Jimmy that he had a budget of $ 15k, he had pretty much decided on a Pioneer Elite 1120 HD, Denon 3910, Denon 4806, and was very impressed with the Vienna Acoustic Mozart series. He seemed knowledgeable, using all of the normal buzz words, but after talking to him in person, things such as amps, watts, ohms, the basic stuff, which I would expect someone making a sizeable investment for a complete HT system, would at least have the basic understanding of. If not, then how will one reach an informed and logical decision, and with a $ 15k investment, its not like buying a inexpensive out of the box system, and if one is dissatisfied when trying it at home, simply box it up, return it and demand a refund.

Well Jimmy was here for over two hours, auditioning what he later reviews as an okay speaker system, and over powered amps that were just a waste of money. We talked about HT equipment and I was told how he was dealing with Best Buy, Magnolia Hi-Fi (which was purchased by BB for $ 86 mil, and they now shove them in the corners of select store) and The Good Guys. I had mentioned on the phone about my dealings with GG when trying to purchase the Halo system, and well here, he asked for the details. I told the ordeal of getting a refund, and the time I spent at the store, he took it upon himself to inform me that I had no clue as to dealing with sales staff. Since he had been in some sort of management which I do not recall, that he had the edge, and could get his demands meant when he was spending $ 15k on a system. I was informed that he had forced one of the above stores, to allow him to take 3 demos home, one at a time, so he could decide which TV he would decide on. (wait, thought that decision was made) If they did not find demos for him, he would simply purchase them one at a time, and once he had made his decision, they would have the opened box units to sell, at least 2, if not all 3,if he did not decide on one. When he called me to arrange the audition, I was told that both Best Buy and Good Guys were going to give him a 30 day trail/return on anything he was interested in. I told him that was not my experience with dealing with them, I was told that I just did not know how to deal with them then. So it went from an agreement with the store to a threat I guess. Bottom line, I would like to see this happen in the chain stores, yes they like large sales, will they go out of their way *shrug* find any one in these types of stores that have that kind of authority to make a decision. These stores have guidelines, and do not take it upon themselves to make a decision, without it taking weeks to receive a decision back from corporate.

In the last six months, there have been three areas of major purchases, a total of over $80k, and I have made all of the final decisions of prices paid. Iím all too aware of factory flooring, central warehouses that chain store pull from, and how stores like to sell open boxed items. I understand the system very well, the day of cash being a negotiating factor in a sale are long past, at least for us small peasants. With so much population in the bay area, chain stores do not concern them selves with customer service, if you donít buy it, the next person in the door will.

I was a contractor for years, and built houses on spec, and prayed I had a buyer before the house was completed and my loan went from a construction loan to a conventional loan. I move here to the bay area, decide to purchase a new home, and what do I learn, itís a lottery system, you make 3 choices out of the current phase of homes, you are put on a waiting list. Then on a specified date/time, you leave a voice mail of your three choices, if luck is with you, you win one of your choices. If not, the next phase of homes increase by $ 7 Ė12k, and you get to make another attempt. I would have liked to have this deal when I was building custom homes. One advantage is like this house, you can double your investment within 2 to 4 years. Sorry, Iím way of topic here folks. Point was, Iím not a dummy when it comes to making major purchases, and usually have some sort of clue as to what Iím doing.

Jimmy was driving a Lexus, that I would guess is no more than a year or two old, not familiar with the model years for that manufacturer, not my personal preference, me, Iím more into sporty models. He seems to live in an area of San Ramon that is a nice neighbor hood, close to a golf course and such. San Romon is about 40 to 50 miles closer to the city, and there fore house values are higher, thus, why Iím out here in what SF people consider the sticks, homes closer to the bay area are way beyond my means. I would venture that Jimmyís house is a min of $750 k and could be way above that. I could list today and ask $ 675 k, and if it ends in a bidding war, as much as another $40 to 80 k possible, so imagine being a lot closer to the bay area how costs rise quickly.

The living costs in his area are about the same, as here, so just judging from what facts I know, he should
not have a problem with budgeting the $15k that I was told, if not more if he choose, but then Iím no longer married, so I do not have to deal with the WAF issue. From the prices I have found, and with his declared budget, he should be able to put the package together as he described going with his first choice of speakers. This is where I question his desire to even consider Axioms, only logical reason I can arrive at is
that either the budget is getting to tight for his desires, or he was trying to find a line of less expensive speakers to reduce costs for what ever reasoning.

My first thought is WHY ? I had the opposite issue, the original budget allowed $2 Ė 3k for amp/processor, when that became an issue, I did not cut back, I seen the need for an additional cost. Did it NEED to be the Halos, no, of course not. Did I like them, could I justify them to myself, could I afford them, after auditioning themÖ.yes. As members on the board did, I suggested considering spending less on the choice of receiver, and pass on the plasma for now, go with the Denon 2900 verses the 3910, which is what members proved to me was a wise choice for the next year or two. That would allow more toward the speaker expenditure, since the speakers are a bit more practical than giving up some quality of the plasma perhaps, my dumb logic again, speakers/power are the primary focus on a new system.

In reading all of his posts, and thinking of all things I was told by him, Iím really finding it to be objective that he was even half serious about his so called interest in Axioms. He questioned Ianís decision on the way he markets the Axiom products, why there are not Axioms in chain stores, there were not enough reviews in what ever publications he reads and seems to put his trust in. This coming from a person
That states he worked in management/business, he first of all should understand why Axiom are sold the way they are. Call Axiom, you have a live person, that is concerned about the product they sell, and desire to aid the customer in any way they can. Try this with any LARGE chain store, you are lucky to find a knowledgeable manager, and if you have any substantial knowledge about the product you are interested in, you usually know more then the combined sales staff in any given store.

Retail stores like Best Buy, Mag HF, Good Guys, Circuit City and go right down the list, they are okay for the average home user. But any one making a substantial investment usually avoids them, or perhaps audition a product that they may carry which one is interested it, but as for knowledge, I do not listen to them, they know less than I, Iím far from an audio/video expert.

Having had the time to reflect on the comments that I thought were positive from Jimmy well here listening to the system, perhaps they were not as I took them. Perhaps he was actually telling me he felt I had wasted money on the amps, and had totally went beyond the need power for my listening area.
Does not matter, as I said before he is entitled to his opinion, and all I had asked was an honest evaluation well here of my system. Also his telling me he was anxious to audition the Axioms, so he could make a decision, and start his purchasing of equipment, changed to ďoh well, Iíve been working on a new system for 10 years, not sure when I will I start buyingĒ.

From his posts, I have no clue what his problem was in regards to the Axiom, but I do know that the sound reproduction he says he heard is a complete opposite of what about 20 other people heave heard.
So either he is tone deaf, is only listening to a two channel system at his home, does not understand what surround speakers actually produce, can not distinguish between a regular CD and a multi channel SACD,
understand 6.1 or 7.1 basic concept. At this point, for myself, Iím no longer giving him benefit of doubt and just accept he heard what he heard. Its basically impossible, unless Ken & Peter find out today that I have wired the speakers wrong, they are facing the wall, or in boxes, and Iím a complete walking fool.

One other thing of interest, Jimmy made the comment that he had contacted four Axiom owners within 100 mile, making it sound like it was a long trip to do an audition. Had he spent a few weeks on the forum, he could have found I think like at least 6 with in an hours driving time or less. So instead of rushing to the auditioning list, all he had to do was chat and get to know people so they knew him a while.

Okay, not going to compete with Mark for long posts, will end this now. Once again, I thank everyone for the great support, and for supporting my choices and not condemning for the amount of money I choose to spend. Ya only live once, and at this point in my life and my old age, I do, as I damn well want.


#85759 - 03/20/05 11:39 AM Re: Sorry....not impressed
Ajax Offline

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 6319
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio
All I can say is, in reading about your journey with the Halos - how you initially bought from one store and, when they didn't live up to your expectations, requested and got a refund, and then negotiated a great deal from another vendor including an agreement to a complete refund if you were not satisfied - I was respectfully doffing my hat to your negotiating skills. That's way beyond my abilities. I think, for the greater part of my life, I've looked like a Tootsie-pop to most salesman. However, finally in my dotage, I'm getting somewhat better at holding my own, but I'm still a long way from your level.

There is no way of knowing for sure what is going on with Jimmy, and why he did what he did. So, for me to speculate is just an exercise in irresponsibility. But his behavior was most inexplicable.

Watch out for Peter and Ken. I've had Peter here in my home, and found him to be a bright, friendly, and fun young man. I enjoyed his company very much. I haven't had the pleasure of meeting Ken, but I like, very much, his presence here on the forum. Just don't let them try to convince you there is something terrifically wrong with your system, and graciously offer to take it off your hands for next to nothing. Just box their ears and send them on their way.

Seriously, have a great time.

"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton

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