thanks, yes the 525 is last yrs' model and not sure if i can still find it locally so i am considering the 430 or 630. there is no 530 so one or both have replaced the 525. that's interesting what you've written about the denon. i also read in another thread the same comment about denons being bright. i'm a little surtprised because i thought the hk was also bright, at least when compared to the onkyo. i haven't been able to compare it to the denon line but you're right, i don't want it if it's indeed brighter than the hk, the hk is plenty bright for my tastes. (that's why i'm considering the m50 and m40)