Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo What size speaker with which type amplifier?

I've had the same solid state amp and speakers for thirty years. Through the decades I've added an HK casette deck and a Denon CD player. However, I've reached middle age and would like to upgrade my system without breaking my piggy bank. I've been reading and researching for six months and have changed my mind so often my wife is telling me to PLEASE make a decision.
I thought I had decided on a pair of Klipsch RF-3's when I noticed an ad for Axiom. I've read a number of reviews and am very impressed. They look like speakers that I could live with in my twilight years. My living room is approximately 15X20 but we plan on moving as soon as my daughter finishes high school. I've been leaning toward the M-80's. Though my daughter wants me to enter the home theater arena I'm more interested in classical music and good old rock and roll. So it looks like a bigger house and a DVD player are also in my future.
I've also been bouncing back and forth between SS and tube amplifiers. I thought that the Denon AVR-3803 would solve all my problems. Any suggestions for an amplifier in the $1000 +/-$200 range? Also, will the Denon 3803 do the M-80's proud?
Your help will be greatly appreciated.

Monk

Monk, so far as size of speaker, your present room wouldn't require M80s as compared to M60s and I think that M60s would be fine. It isn't clear when you mean to get into multi-channel rather than stereo, but I assume that you want to get a multi-channel receiver now so that you're ready. There's no good reason to consider tube equipment and an excellent receiver in the price category you mention would be the Pioneer 45TX which you should also consider besides the Denon 3803.

Although i have some friends who are stereophiles by nature, i have impressed at least one of them with my surround system used for music.
Don't sell yourself short.
The stereo sound is great, but if you can be immersed in the sound echoing all around you, why would you not?

The point i'm getting at is the one plus about multiple channel receivers and surround speakers. You can always add the surrounds later and if you so decide they are not your thing, then at least in regards to Axiom's policies, you can return them quite easily.

JohnK has given some advice on decent receivers but do some more searching around on these forums. This topic (receivers good for M80 or other Axioms) have been covered quite extensively recently.

Monk:

I have a pair of M80s and my music preferences are similar to yours -- I prefer classical and alternative rock myself. I listen to music in stereo only.

I would say the M80s (or maybe Axiom speakers in general) are quite good for classical music. They are revealing, generous in width and depth, and in the case of the M80s more than sufficient bass response (in fact, after I did a small tweak this weekend, I ended up with too much bass). The "harsh" treble that people complain about actually work in your favour as most classical recordings are quite laid back compared to rock recordings.

I use the M80s in a much smaller listening area will no ill effects -- I love the front-row-centre feeling. And it doesn't get much more front-row-centre than "listening" from the podium

As for amplification, most SS amplifiers would have no problems driving the M80s. In the 500-1000 dollar range you can pick from NAD, Rotel, Bryston, Adcom, Acurus, etc etc (just a few names that come to mind). Even a new CJ MF2250 can be had for around 1200.

Tube (integrated) amp choices may be a bit limited, but you can investigate either stock Jolidas or the Response Audio modified Joliads (RAM300?).

Good luck

Hi Monk

Just out of curiosity, are you the same Monk that frequents the www.13thfret.com web site?

Phil K

Wow! I have a SS Amp and speakers by Kenwood that are over thirty years old and also decided its time to upgrade. I've been through all the same trials and listening sessions that you have and probably more. Nearly made similar decisions about equipment too. My room size is also close to yours at 14/25. Fortunately, no direction from the wife to make a decision and we're not moving.

I finally decided for myself. I had auditioned so many speakers over the last several months - burnout was setting in. So I took a break for a couple of weeks to review all of my efforts. I was able to eliminate certain brands from my search because of sound, $$$ per value, reviews, etc. However, Axiom kept coming back in the picture but I had not heard them. Well, I went to Toronto last week and made the rounds of a few Axiom dealers. Tuesday, I ordered the M80s, VP150, QS8s, and a pair of M3s for the back. The same day I ordered (on back-order)the PB1-ISD from SVS. In January we purchased an Onkyo TX-SR800 at a great price from CC which will drive the system. Great A/V Amp.; 4 ohm rated; very reliable; and totally under-rated (my opinion). Like all of them - it has more bell / whistles than I'll ever figure out how to use.

I chose the M80s over the M60s because they had a nice mid and bass quality and did not have the nasil sound that I heard in the M60s. It is basically the same reason I chose the M3s in the rear over the M22s. Not very scientific but it works for me.

Total System Investment less than $3400 US - not too shabby

Anyway, I hope I'm around another 30+ years so I can replace this equipment. By the way, my trip to Canada wasn't just to audition Axioms - my daughter and grandkids live there.

Good Luck in your search - I'm outa here.

Good Morning,

This is a follow-up to my previous query. The reason I was leaning toward an AV amplifier was to avoid having to purchase separates if and when I go the DVD(HT) route.
If I purchase the M-80's they will be used with a pair of Dynaco's from Denmark rated at 8 ohms and a pair of speakers from Audio Dynamics Corp. whose rating I couldn't locate. I don't believe the company still makes speakers. Will mixing these various brands cause a problem? I hadn't planned on the expense of the extra speakers for HT.
I also read some imformation on Rotel's products since somebody recommended them. The RSX-1065 looks like a fine piece of equipment but is out of my price range. The RSX-1055 I could probably afford but is 75 watts per enough power? Any info is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Monk

I doubt you would push the dial on the RSX-1055 past 70 even in modest size rooms. The RSX-1055 at 75w 5 channels driven is as loud as any Onkyo, JVC and some Yamaha receivers at manufactured spec'd @ 100w/channel. On 2 channel stereo the RSX-1055 plays about 95W @ 2 channel stereo driven. With all 5 channels driven it does not drop below 75W. It is loud powerful and crisp with detail. And its also on sale. There is a hidden feature I believe that you can route the 2 front main channels to the back to make it 7.1. You would then need a another 2 channel amp to power the 2 front mains. With this ability you can get a really sweet 2 channel power amp like an Anthem, Bryston...etc or even 2 mono blocks and have the luxury of taking up your stereo level listening to the next level.

Saturn

Hi monk,

The Dynaco speakers are fairly neutral, so they should be okay. If memory serves, the ADC's are not neutral (I think they used German drivers from Braun).

When you mix brands with various tonal "character", you will notice differences in coloration, and the overall integration of the 5.1 channels won't be as successful as it would be with Axioms all-around. But it will likely be ok for awhile until your start finding the coloration and inaccuracies annoying.

In the early days of Dolby Surround (pre Pro Logic, pre digital), I recall using a portable powered center speaker from Bose as a center. It was convenient but horribly colored, especially with dialog voices. Eventually, I took it out and did without a center until I could get something better.

Regards,

Hi once again,

Another note in my neverending search for just the right setup. I found a Rotel distributor across the river. He also carries Denon products. Though I won't be able to hear Axioms through the receivers I can at least hear what they sound like and get some prices. I've mentioned before that the two in my price range are the Denon 3803 and the Rotel RSX 1055. I'm also leaning toward the M-80's.
It's amazing what knowledge one can pick up by reading a few thousand reviews.

Thanks,
Monk

Monk I think M60 would satisfy your needs as my listening/livingroom is also 20 x15. Got back into hifi last year with a rotel cd player and amp. Had problem with M60 brightness. The cause is not Axiom speakers it is the SOURCE, despite contrary opinions on this site. Upgraded to Mark Levinson #39 cd player solved brightness. Although my M60s are most modest part of my system and are derided by my so called audio 'friends' as mid fi AV speakers, I personally love them. Also recommend classe products as your amp. I picked up classe CA-100 for $800 US. All components bought pre-owned, mostly on Audiogon, except Axioms:

Mark Levinson #39 cd player "run direct"
Classe CA-100 Amplifier
Harmonic Technologies Pro Silway XLR interconnect
and PRO AC power cords
Nordost Red Dawn bi-wire
Axiom Millenium M60ti
Behringer Ultramatch and portable Sharp MT-877 minidisc for portable music

Enjoy the Music !

Good morning,

Another bit of news concerning my attempt to decide what to buy. I've written Rotel a couple of times with some of the specs on the M-80's to get their opinion if the RSX1055 , at 75 watts, would be a good match. I realize they aren't necessarily familiar with Axiom products but I thought I would get a less vague answer. If I could afford the RSX1065 I wouldn't be going through this hassle. I've almost come full circle. The Denon 3803, my first choice months ago, is looking better and better. I had almost decided to go with the M-60's and the RSX1055 but why lower my standards. A good pair of speakers should outlast a receiver, right?
Any further comments are appreciated.

Thanks,
Monk

RSX1055 will live a long time. Rotel makes outstanding products and they sound good and powerful. The 1055 also has a special feature that routes its front amplification to the rear to power a 7.1 setup so that you can get a really good separate power amp and power your fronts in stereo listening mode. This combo will then give you the flexibility of a great sounding HT environment plus you will get the solid performance and class of having separates when listening to music in stereo mode. When Rotel say 70W they mean 70W all channel driven. When listening to 2 channel stereo mode you get about 90-93W of solid clean power. I have the higher RSX1065 but unfortunately it does not have that feature the RSX1055 has. I wish it did so that I could buy 2 mono blocks for my fronts and still route the front amplication to the rears so I do not have to buy an extra 2 channel amp to power my rear surrounds in a 7.1 setup. And at 70W I doubt you will even raise your volume past the 75 mark. It is loud and powerful. I don't think I ever cranked my speakers past 68. Its definitely too loud at that point.


Saturn

When I upgraded to a surround system I also bought a carousel Denon DVD player that I figured could do double duty as a CD player. I am experiencing more brightness than I would like on SOME music (especially bad recordings and generally low talent performers...like Robert Plant). What's your opinion on using a DVD player for playing CDs?

Good Evening,

I ordered the M80's last Friday. They arrived on Monday. I purchased the Denon 3803 and tonight I started tearing apart my old system. The setup has me a little apprehensive but I hope to muddle through.If I'm lucky by tomorrow night I'll be listening to some of my favorite CD's on a much improved pair of speakers.

Monk

I think you'll be very happy. I have the Denon 3803 powering the M60s. It's a great combination. Let us know what you think.