Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Another Sub Question

I'm about to pull the trigger on a new sub. I've been on the B stock list with Hsu for a VTF3 MK II and am about 90% sure that I will go that route. A friend brought up a question that I don't have a definitive answer for this weekend.

We use our HT system about 60% for music and 40% for movies. We're set up in a 25" x 12" room which opens into another 12 x 12 room. With 3 kids less than 6 years old in the house we have few opportunities to crank up our system very loud. I was discussing my potential new sub purchase with this friend and he wondered whether I would be better served with a couple of smaller subs. (He's interested in the 10" Rockets).

Any opinions given we don't have much opportunity for much volume? At low volumes will we still get the "oomph" and bang for the buck $$ from the Hsu. I'm feeling that if I don't go with the Hsu I"ll always be wondering if I should have. It would be nice to avoid upgraditis for a while. I thought that the WAF might be higher with a couple of smaller subs, but she assures me that she's ok with a big box as well. She doesn't want a cylinder sub of any kind. Any ideas or opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Well all I can say is that you won't regret buying the HSU. I have it and I love it. It works very well at low levels and also when the volume gets going.

However, going with two smaller subs is also appealing. I know a few people who run dual subs and they swear by it.

In the end I don't think you will go wrong either way.

One thing you won't get from two smaller subs compared to one larger one is lower frequency extention.Say you went with the two smaller ones ( two Vtf 2s ),they will still only go as low as the tuned frequency allows.With one larger one ( say the Vtf 3 ) you will still get the output of the two smaller ones but the tuned frequency is lower.

I did go from two Hsu Vtf 2s to one Stf 3 and I am quite happy with the results.

Stay with the bigger sub for better lower frequency response.

When I got my SVS several weeks ago, the wife asked what it was. When I told her, she said why did you need that thing, its ugly.

I knew that she would get over it. She hasn't said much since.

I think that it looks great next to my M80s. Believe it or not, it is the same height, give or take just a little.

In reply to:

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I did go from two Hsu Vtf 2s to one Stf 3 and I am quite happy with the results.

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Rick: Any particular reason that you went to STF 3 instead of VTF 3 MKII (apart from the price difference)? From the specs, and from the new "turbo" feature, VTF 3 seems better.

I own a pair of the 10” Rocket UFW-10’s in a space a little larger than yours.

They work very well for music, and the parametric EQ was a very big help to get a 20 db room mode bump fixed. The bass is fairly smooth and even now. However, they only hint at shaking the room and there are times I know I’m missing something. I picked the dual Rockets mainly because of space/location constraints and also because I needed a good musical subwoofer to support my M22’s (really the Rocket is an excellent woofer rather than a subwoofer). The trade-off was I don’t have the full impact for some movie scenes.

Unless you place a much higher priority on space minimization and accurate bass response (musicality) like I did, I’d go for the bigger subwoofer. You could always get a second one later if it doesn’t fill the room enough, and there are separate component equalizers to handle room mode problems. I didn’t go this route again for space minimization of equipment.

I will say I do like that dual front mounted subwoofers seem to make higher frequency crossover points much less noticeable, but your H&K reciever may not have the bass mangement constraints of my Denon.

In reply to:

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Rick: Any particular reason that you went to STF 3 instead of VTF 3 MKII (apart from the price difference)? From the specs, and from the new "turbo" feature, VTF 3 seems better.

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I had a conversation with Dr. Hsu about this very question.He had asked me what type of music I listened to.I had told him I mainly listen to classic rock and blues.With that in mind he recommended The STF 3 for my system.When I had asked about the VTF 3 MK2 he told me for my application I would not be taking advantage of the lower tuned frequencies the VTF had to offer.A person can also plug one port on the STF 3 if they want to reach into the 20 hz zone.As been noted on the forum before the STF 3 is tuned at 22 hz,although it does not state this on the Hsu website I beleive this to be true.I played a 20hz test tone through mine and it seemed to have quite a bit of energy at 20 hz.

The STF 3 will be able to take advantage of the " Turbo " also.

Thanks for all the help and opinions-Dr. Hsu had a Rosewood VTF3-MK II in B-stock. The price was right so I did the deal. Now the anxious waiting begins.

Congrats,I'm sure you will enjoy it.

Hey Wid let me ask you- Your saying that if you listen to Rock, say DMB and Dire Straits, Allman brother, the STF 3 would be better? I also love to listen to Jazz - contemporary and fusion, Marcus Miller for instance, Still the STF3? I am in the research stage of looking for a sub to replace my 175.
All though these posts on subs no one has mentioned Sunfire, I wonder why as I think they make a great sub all be it pricey.

I'm not saying the STF 3 is a "better" sub but what I am saying is that for a stereo only system with the music I listen to there would have been no clear advantage to spend more for the VTF 3.

OK so if your using your system as both HT & Music then the
VTF 3 MKII would be a good canidate.
Thanks for the input.

Oh yeah if you are using it for h/t plus music go for the VFT 3 MK 2.I doubt you would be disapointed.The EP 500 would be a great choice too.

Awesome, thanks again for the help.

Keeping on Rocking the Free world...

I do believe 'ol Rick (aka Wid around these parts) is one of the resident sub experts. I'm always picking this mans troubled mind regarding equipment.

And I do mean 'T-R-O-U-B-L-E-D'

The sub "Expert" around here is Craigsub.That's whos mind I am always picking.If you really want to know subs in detail he is your man.

Just a bit of encouragement on your purchase of the VTF3 MKII. When I purchased mine I didn't get home from the Hsu headquarters until late at night. So when I plugged the big sucker in I could not play it loud at all. I was tickled silly by the deep wonderfully tight sounds that were emitting from my new sub. I knew instantly that I had made a wise purchase. The bass was so low and clean even at really low volumes.
You will be happy with this sub.

The VTF3 MKII arrived yesterday. FIrst impression out of the box was WOW. The only B-Stock that they had was a rosewood and it is beautiful. I set up it up, but it was pretty late and not wanting to wake up my kids we haven't given it a true test yet or had the opportunity to get the SPL meter out and do some calibrating. The effect on my system was dramatic we played a few CD's and the M22's coupled with the HSU are full and rich. We put Blade Trilogy in for a quick check on a movie and the explosions and effects were deeper and more impressive than I think I expected and my expectations were high. I'm working today so will post more details later.

I have heard good things about the dayton 10" sub you just replaced. The hsu is much better?

My understanding was that the Dayton was fantastic value but wasn't in the same league as, say, a VTF3 (probably not even an STF2) in terms of extension.

Having said that, the Dayton is still supposed to be a real good sub for the money and a decent sub period.

$100 for it and was really pleased with it. The Hsu is in another league. The Dayton is powered by a 100 Watt amp the Hsu by a 350 watt amp. The Hsu goes incredibly deep and is just amazingly musical. (and I haven't yet calibrated or done a sub crawl to maximize location) The Dayton struggled to fill our large (25 X 12 X 9) room at high volumes, the Hsu does it effortlessly. If you're looking for a nice little sub at a low price you can't go wrong with the Dayton.

Whoop - replied to the wrong thread - ignore anything that doesn't make sense!

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The Dayton 10 inch sealed Titanic I was thinking of is here http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&PartNumber=300-760&DID=7&raid=37&r ak=300-760 (In case anyone was wondering)

Thanks cgolf for the info - a few people I have written to said things like "the STF-3 wiped the floor with the CHT-12" - seems like the Hsu line is clearly better than the Velodyne CHT equivalents in size.

I filled out the Hsu questionaire last year and Dr. Hsu recommended the STF-2 even for my small room - he would probably know his subs - so maybe I should pass on the STF-1 and have no buyers regret in a year.

So, stf-2 it is - sometime in the next few months.

Unless anyone sees a flaw in this reasoning. I don't think I want to try to find a Hsu to listen to and the sound would be definitely different in someone elses room. And the Hsus are SO highly recommended (along with SVS) that I probably don't need to try to audition them, if it is even possible to.

If you are dealing with primarily music, not pipe organ, not wall of sound rock, and don't expect to shift more towards movies in the future then the STF-1 would probably do everything you need.

Having said that, IMO the STF-2 is worth the money because it "future proofs" your system and will handle a wider range of uses.

Be warned that as soon as you get a real good sub in the room your "music to movie" ratio is going to shift towards movies (trust me on this) so I would go with STF-2.

I do have some pipe organ music and like Viola de Gamba and Cello music.

Why not spend the extra $100 and not worry about it, huh?

Unless the size is an issue - that I need to figure out. The stf-1 is easier to place in my shoebox of a living room.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm

In my opinion, avoid upgraditis and buy the best you can afford. Upgrading and dealing with used equipment is expensive.