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#115241 - 11/06/05 08:59 PM ok i'm confused....another M60Ti question
Jinx Offline
local

Registered: 09/30/05
Posts: 202
Loc: Windsor, Ontario, Canada
ok. i hooked up my Sansui B-3000 stand alone amplifier tonight, which is 140 watts rms per channel...440 watts total power on 4 channels. i would have thought that my speakers would be LOUDER now, but they are not. i figured the reason i had to turn my pioneer 1015tx up to -5 for happy listening volume was due to the loss of power from the receiver, or that it really was NOT 120 watts rms per channel in stereo...now i gotta wonder if it really is??? could it be that the axioms are just harder to drive than my older Infinity Reference 2000.6 towers??? i mean, my Infinities are a hell of a lot louder at -5 than these axioms are. am i the ONLY person here who listens to their music at basically reference level to be happy? there must be some secret of the universe that i'm missing here right??? please help me figure this out.

i was going to buy a 250 watts/channel amp, thinking i'd get better volume, but now i don't think i really would. what am i missing here???
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Axiom M60Ti Infinity 2000.6 x 4 Infinity RS1 rear Infinity CC200 HSU VTF3 - MKII

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#115242 - 11/06/05 09:11 PM Re: ok i'm confused....another M60Ti question
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6098
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
The volume control markings (eg. "-5") are not a good basis for comparison. It would be nice if 0 meant something like "some kind of reference level output with a specified input" or "as loud as you should play without clipping" but different mfgs seem to do different things.

Yes this makes it hard to compare two amps. Regrettably I think that was the whole idea. A more powerful amp will play more loudly without clipping, compressing the signal, or otherwise changing the sound... and may give tighter bass as a result of lower output impedence... but if it ever was as simple as setting both amps to the same volume and comparing the outputs, it sure isn't that way today.

A big-ass amp is still a Good Thing.
_________________________
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, PC-Plus 20-39, EP500v3
2 pr M5HP, Sierra-1, M40ti, M3v4, VP100
UDP-203 smile

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#115243 - 11/06/05 09:20 PM Re: ok i'm confused....another M60Ti question
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6789
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.
In reply to:

i hooked up my Sansui B-3000 stand alone amplifier tonight, which is 140 watts rms per channel...440 watts total power on 4 channels



Are we talking a two channel power amp here ?
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#115244 - 11/06/05 09:21 PM Re: ok i'm confused....another M60Ti question
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
In reply to:

A big-ass amp is still a Good Thing.




The only thing Martha could have *possibly* added was the term 'honkerin' ... Yes, power is a 'Good Thing'.

And Oh BTW John, about that new avatar ... It's 'different'.

_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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#115245 - 11/06/05 09:26 PM Re: ok i'm confused....another M60Ti question
MarkSJohnson Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 11443
Loc: Central NH
In reply to:

A more powerful amp will play more loudly without clipping, compressing the signal, or otherwise changing the sound




In my opinion, John is "DOBA" accurate in the post above, except that I would add that a more powerful amp will only enable the total volume to be a bit higher....not nearly as much as one would expect.

And now, we segue into JohnK to give us the exact formulas that descibe how much louder more powerfuil amps will be and how many watts you need to have to have a "doubling of perceived volume".

John?
_________________________
::::::: No disrespect to Axiom, but my favorite woofer is my yellow lab :::::::

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#115246 - 11/06/05 09:27 PM Re: ok i'm confused....another M60Ti question
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6098
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>could it be that the axioms are just harder to drive than my older Infinity Reference 2000.6 towers??? i mean, my Infinities are a hell of a lot louder at -5 than these axioms are.

That's just efficiency (sometimes called sensitivity) -- how much sound you get out of the speakers for a given amount of input power. Generally bigger speakers are more efficient than smaller speakers, but not always.

You can see this in the specs for Axioms and other speakers... here are the ratings for M3 :

SPL in Room1w/1m: 92 dB
SPL Anechoic 1w/1m: 88 dB

... and the rating for M60 :

SPL in Room1w/1m(dB): 93 dB
SPL Anechoic 1w/1m(dB): 89 dB

So... if you feed a 1 watt signal from a power amp into the M60 and measure the SPL 1 meter away in a typical room, you get a reading of 93 dB. Of course there is no such thing as a typical room, so the anechoic readings would be more useful... except a lot of manufacturers don't GIVE anechoic readings ;(

>>am i the ONLY person here who listens to their music at basically reference level to be happy?

No, but you are one of the relatively few who is allowed to do so
_________________________
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, PC-Plus 20-39, EP500v3
2 pr M5HP, Sierra-1, M40ti, M3v4, VP100
UDP-203 smile

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#115247 - 11/06/05 09:28 PM Re: ok i'm confused....another M60Ti question
F107plus5 Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/24/05
Posts: 2034
Loc: Fla. Orig. Mich.
My first thought about the avatar was; "John really IS angry about what's been going on over at AVS"

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#115248 - 11/06/05 09:33 PM Re: ok i'm confused....another M60Ti question
bridgman Offline
axiomite

Registered: 08/25/04
Posts: 6098
Loc: Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada
>>And Oh BTW John, about that new avatar ... It's 'different'.

Sledge Hammer is my new hero. Is this pic better ?
_________________________
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, PC-Plus 20-39, EP500v3
2 pr M5HP, Sierra-1, M40ti, M3v4, VP100
UDP-203 smile

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#115249 - 11/06/05 09:53 PM Re: ok i'm confused....another M60Ti question
Wid Offline
axiomite

Registered: 06/22/03
Posts: 6789
Loc: The Peoples Republic of Il.

Where are you getting this 440 watts total power on 4 channels from ?
_________________________
Rick


"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud


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#115250 - 11/06/05 10:06 PM Re: ok i'm confused....another M60Ti question
RickF Offline
axiomite

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 5210
Loc: Vero Beach, Florida
In reply to:

Sledge Hammer is my new hero. Is this pic better ?




I don't know. I've always known you as the other avatar and the new is just different....in a couple of days I'll never know the difference.

It's almost like the guy you've known for years with a beard and suddenly he shows up out of the blue without it ... or like the nice looking neighbor lady friend of ours who comes over one day and things just weren't quite like the way they were yesterday and boastfully she ask 'How do they look?' Uh, GREAT! (That's actually an honest to goodness no-lie story!)
_________________________
Rick
Our Room

smile

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