Re: Disturbing Conduct by SVS
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745 Likes: 17
axiomite
|
axiomite
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 5,745 Likes: 17 |
Quote:
Well its an interesting point you make. However there is an important distinction between how a business conducts itself legally vs ethically.
It is unethical to bash someone else'e product on a forum? I think that is going beyond the ultra sensitive point for most any human being. It is a p.c. world but come on, people have thicker skins than that and there are many other companies that use strongarm tactics to get their way. Are they also being "unethical"?
Your poll is rather slanted, esp. in regards to the last question. Obviously anyone would answer no to that third statement compared to selecting the other two options and the poll shows that result, but there is an insinuation that their practices are incredibly malevolent by using the term 'unethical'. I don't think what SVS has done is unethical at all. Mudslinging at best and even the politicians do that, but it certainly is not unethical. We may think it is not very "honourable" but honour and ethics are two different things.
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."
|
|
|
Re: Disturbing Conduct by SVS
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331
axiomite
|
axiomite
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,331 |
Quote:
We may think it is not very "honourable" but honour and ethics are two different things.
Interesting! From the Merriam-Webster online dictionary/thesaurus
Entry Word: ethical Function: adjective Text: 1 conforming to a high standard of morality or virtue <the ethical behavior expected of every member of the police force> -- see GOOD 2 following the accepted rules of moral conduct <the ethical course of action for the senator who lied to congress would be to resign> -- see HONORABLE 3 guided by or in accordance with one's sense of right and wrong <ethical writers do not use the words of other writers without giving them proper credit> -- see CONSCIENTIOUS.
Entry Word: honorable Function: adjective Text: 1 following the accepted rules of moral conduct <the only honorable thing to do is to admit that you were wrong and apologize> Synonyms decent, ethical, honest, just, noble, principled, respectable, righteous, upright, upstanding
Jack
"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
|
|
|
Re: Disturbing Conduct by SVS
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 853
aficionado
|
OP
aficionado
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 853 |
Quote:
I don't think what SVS has done is unethical at all. Mudslinging at best and even the politicians do that, but it certainly is not unethical. We may think it is not very "honourable" but honour and ethics are two different things.
Well the poll does show that for 25% of the respondents the ethics of SVS business practice won't deter their purchase decision. There will always be a % of any group that say the ends justify the means, which sounds like your postion Chesseroo. The results are actually very close to what researchers find in other business as well. There will always be a hard core group (about 25%)where ethical considerations do not enter into their purchase decisions. I actually slanted the question the other way by giving pollsters 2 answers out of the 3 which supported a decision to purchase.
You say what SVS has done is not unethical. Interesting. Lets look at the facts.
For several years now SVS have used phony plants whom the have hired or are staff to post wonderful descriptions of how much they love their SVS subs whether they own them or not. When criticism or concerns are raised by interested parties or potential buyers they appear en masse to either intimidate or undermine the person making the criticism. They start many false threads about how the plant had sub A but sold it to buy SVS sub B and how much better it is. Every once in a while either Stimpson of Voldahal weighs in giving credence to what the plant is saying. When technical information or a competing comparison is posted the gang goes into overdrive with misinformation about the other sub by starting new threads about how they had an SVS sub and the other sub didn't cut it. When threads are started on other non-SVS subs not even mentioning SVS the marketing gang weighs in with how their SVS sub is so much better. When a forum owner tries to curtail this abusive behaviour he gets threatened that SVS will pull its advertising $$s if their plants are not allowed to disrupt non-SVS threads. I've often questioned these plants and their responses indicated they had never heard either the sub in question or owned the SVS sub they were purporting was better. When a group of honest enthusiasts gets together to do blind tests with an SVS sub and an Axiom sub SVS plants respond en masse with how the results cannot be believed and were fixed. I won't even get into the campaign they waged against Axiom in the fall of 2005 when the EP500/600 made such a splash. There is much more but you get the picture.
At the heart of this is a a lack of transparency and a concerted plan aimed at deceiving readers. I've seen many an unsophisticated first time buyer misled by such deceptive practices. I see the ethical question here as clear as night and day and so do 76% of the sample polled. I don't expect everyone to see the ethical implications of this type of business practice but I'm glad to see the mods at Audioholics and AVS do.
Like I said earlier I don't buy products of any company that condones this kind of business practice because it is all too often symptematic of a corporate culture that will also use other disreptutable techniques. For example independent testers have not been able to replicate most of FR graphs at their site which is no surprise to me. Anyway I look at it SVS marketing practices constitute one of the more blatant unethical lapses I've seen in a while. What's right and wrong was certainly clear to Clint and Gene at Audioholics.
John
|
|
|
Re: Disturbing Conduct by SVS
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 213
local
|
local
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 213 |
I knew a guy who was selling a product online. He setup forums and did the whole nine yards, setting up several accounts and having conversations with himself, touting his products. He said it worked but took a lot of his time.
All I am trying to say is this is a common, but deceptive procedure. I expect if I was one of the other advertisers on the website, I would have a lot to say about the practice, and maybe one of them did.? Possibly, the website was guided by their overall advertisement income, and it became necessary to let go of a portion of the income, to remain unbiased.
Personally, I have always wondered if a reviewer of a product has to return the item they returned when finished ? . I do know of one case where after a review of a HTPC, the reviewer got to keep the product. I would think that conduct would conflict with an unbiased review also.
Whenever money is involved, I anticipate that the playing field is not level. Sad, but true.
Randy
Axiom M80, Ep600, Qs8, VP150, Crown XLI 2500 , DBX Driverack PA2, Focusrite Scarlet 2i4
|
|
|
Re: Disturbing Conduct by SVS
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
|
Founder, Axiom Upgrade Club shareholder in the making
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,077 Likes: 7 |
I've owned an entry-level SVS sub as well as a record-setting earthquake, and I'm sorry, but Mother Nature's bass extension couldn't keep up. SVS FTW!
|
|
|
Re: Disturbing Conduct by SVS
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155
connoisseur
|
connoisseur
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,155 |
Interesting thread.
I have an SVS sub and am very pleased with it. However, they seem to have crossed over the line.
Too bad. I guess that they felt threatened.
The Rat.
M80s, VP-150, QS8s,
SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO,
Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880
Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
|
|
|
Re: Disturbing Conduct by SVS
|
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 853
aficionado
|
OP
aficionado
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 853 |
SVS issued this statement today. It looks like the inevitable spin control to me but I hope it also suggests a new direction for them on how they will run their business.
------------------------------------------------------------
This statement is in response to recent allegations made by the owners and operators of “Audioholics”, an Internet Audio/Video Magazine.
Despite repeated requests from "Audioholics" over the last two months for SVS to renew our advertising contract with their website, SVS notified Audioholics on January 31, 2007 that we would not be renewing an agreement for 2007. Our decision was due primarily to lower than expected returns on our investment based on customer surveys. At no point in these contract discussions, or the recent issuance of an Audioholics “Product of the Year Award”, or during the entire previous year, had the conduct of SVS been questioned by Audioholics as less than honest and productive.
After concluding our relationship, we were surprised and disappointed to learn the next day that SVS was supposedly “fired” by Audioholics as an advertiser. Audioholics apparently used the statements of a forum member as a pretense for "firing" SVS, insinuating that SVS "planted" the forum member to create controversy and boost SVS sales. Not only are these allegations patently false, they are damaging to SVS' reputation. SVS has never asked any Internet forum member to post anything on its behalf. We can only imagine that Audioholics "fired" SVS as a preemptive strike to protect its image (we would assume that no online magazine wants to be perceived as losing sponsors).
While we regularly participate in all the major A/V forums, both to answer questions about our products, and because we are still audio enthusiasts -- we ALWAYS identify ourselves as SVS employees whenever we discuss anything related to our products, or competitive products. We are an internet-direct business, and it should be self-evident that a significant portion of our sales revenue is derived from credible on-line professional reviews and from equally credible comments by satisfied customers.
With that said, it bears repeating: SVS does not tell anyone in the public what to say, and by extension has never paid anyone (or provided other incentives) for posting comments on our behalf. Nor do SVS employees post statements without identifying their relationship with SVS. If a given audio forum member questions what he perceives to be biased and preferential behavior on the part of Audioholics’ management with respect to its various advertisers, that is, of course, his or her prerogative, based on an opinion and motivation of his own. That such actions are beyond our control should be obvious as well.
Professional integrity and honesty are the very core values upon which SVS was founded nearly 8 years ago; without them we would have already ceased to flourish. For the tens of thousands of valued SVS customers, our personal commitment to those values and audio excellence remain, even in the face of spurious accusations such as these, whatever their motivation. An even greater array of new and improved world-class products and continued dedication to open and objective discourse are our promises to you for 2007.
John
|
|
|
Re: Disturbing Conduct by SVS
|
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,102
connoisseur
|
connoisseur
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,102 |
Wow,
so they are telling the opposite of Audioholics.com?
Wow, someone here is lying about the renual of their adds, and I am pretty sure Audioholics would never do such a thing...
|
|
|
Re: Disturbing Conduct by SVS
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,602
connoisseur
|
connoisseur
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 3,602 |
At this point, someone is lying.
Opening of some emails would probably shed light on the situation.
Bren R.
|
|
|
Re: Disturbing Conduct by SVS
|
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,177
connoisseur
|
connoisseur
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 1,177 |
Quote:
At this point, someone is lying.
Opening of some emails would probably shed light on the situation.
Bren R.
Hey, I know! Let's give John Gomery millions of Canadian tax dollars to get to the bottom of this!!!
Shawn
Epic 80/600 + M3's + M3 Algonquins + M2 Computer + EP125 I think I'm developing an addiction.
|
|
|
Forums16
Topics24,945
Posts442,482
Members15,617
|
Most Online2,082 Jan 22nd, 2020
|
|
0 members (),
1,046
guests, and
3
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|