 Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Ok, after installing the speakers and everything I need some rear speaker cables. I need 90 feet max so either I can buy axiom bulk cable or a friend of mine will sell me his monster xp flat speaker cable for same price but its 150 feet but I only need 90 feet. So for the same amount of money which would you take? Which you think is better quality (I know you can't hear a difference) as far as resistance, last longer over time, etc?
Axiom M60s, VP150, QS8s, EP500 -- Rotel 1075 & 1068 -- Panasonic BDT500 -- Panasonic 60S60
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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90 ft? Are you saying you will have two 45ft runs for both speakers? I would suggest looking at the wire table for the below link. The table shows you recommended gauge to use for certain ohm speakers and length runs. You may have to read the section on over 50ft runs, which is not as recommended. I would also not hesitate to just go to your local home improvement store and buy right off the spool per foot, you save money and not pay higher unneeded costs. I would not recommend your friends XP flat cable for this application. http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Well, only one side needs 35 feet and the other 25 feet but I'm picky and want it the same so 35 feet each. I figured I'd buy additional 20 feet for future needs or in case I cut too short and mess up.  I was thinking I need 12 or 10 gauge.
Axiom M60s, VP150, QS8s, EP500 -- Rotel 1075 & 1068 -- Panasonic BDT500 -- Panasonic 60S60
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Well, I guess I don't know anybody that uses 10 AWG wire. I used 12 AWG for all my speakers. I would recommend keeping a little extra on each end for error, or if you have to rework anything in the future. You would rather have a little to much than not enough.  There is really no need to match lengths of your left/right side. I know some people will tell you that though.... good luck
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Reason wires will be kinda long is since I do not have attic or crawl space I'm gonna have to run speaker wires on the walls, corners, etc which I bought mouldings for. I'll post some pics of it. Ok, I just saw some bulk speaker wire at monoprice really cheap but not sure if thats good quality or if its all I really need. I'm looking at the OFC 12 gauge spool, or would you go with CL3 rated even though its not really inside walls?
Axiom M60s, VP150, QS8s, EP500 -- Rotel 1075 & 1068 -- Panasonic BDT500 -- Panasonic 60S60
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Eric, God didn't make no bad copper, so don't worry about "quality". In addition, theres no good reason to use extra wire just to make the runs of equal length. Stop by Home Depot or Lowes and have them cut you some of the regular 14 or 16ga lampcord. There's no need to use a jacketed cord if it isn't going to be installed in-wall.
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Quote:
Eric, God didn't make no bad copper, so don't worry about "quality". In addition, theres no good reason to use extra wire just to make the runs of equal length. Stop by Home Depot or Lowes and have them cut you some of the regular 14 or 16ga lampcord. There's no need to use a jacketed cord if it isn't going to be installed in-wall.
Excellent advice. If it's not going in the wall then CLx rated cable really isn't needed. 12 gauge wire is more than enough for the distance you need.
Like already mentioned, the electrons don't really care how to get from point a to b as long as it's conductive.
I went the bling route  and purchase the Liberty Ultra cap then covered with tech flex.
M80's VP150 QS8's Earthquake SuperNova MKV-15
Integra DTR-7.4 Outlaw 755 Outlaw M200's Outlaw ICBM
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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buff
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I actually use 10 awg(Blue Jeans Cable). I'm sure its overkill but so what. Just make sure your connections will work fine with it as it is big and I ended up using banana plugs for easy of use. Without them the 10 would have been a pain to connect as it was difficult to connect cleanly on the back of AVR and my Axioms(hole was almost not big enough). IF you use the banana it looks much better and setup is easy.
Bill3508
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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There seem to be two common explanations for the "equal length speaker wires" idea. The first dates back to vacuum tube amplifiers with output transformers and higher output impedences, where (for some reason) the impedence of the speaker cable made a greater difference than it did today. I never understood that one. The other reason was to sell more speaker wire. I understand that one  The cheap Home Depot (etc..) speaker wire with the clear insulation has had a few reports of corrosion, but even that seems to be caused by the insulation rather than the copper. My favorite speaker wire is the jacketed stuff sold by Home Depot -- it's cheap, in-wall rated, easy to strip, and looks good on the floor if a bit "industrial". The Axiom cable is felt to be very high quality, but the quality shows in relatively subtle ways -- the fine strands make the wire bend more easily (which makes hookup and troubleshooting easier), the insulation is tough but strips easily, it looks good etc... Just make sure you know the reasons for buying better speaker cable and the right choice for you should become more clear. You can't really go wrong, although I tend to stay away from the clear HD 12 gauge just because it's a bit of a pain to work with and won't lie flat.
M60ti, VP180, QS8, M2ti, EP500, PC-Plus 20-39
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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old hand
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Quote:
Well, only one side needs 35 feet and the other 25 feet but I'm picky and want it the same so 35 feet each.
The only (valid) reason for making both cables the same length is for resale value. It's harder to sell two cables of different lengths than a matched pair and that reason gets negated when you run the cable in a more or less permanent fashion (in-wall). I'm running 12AWG in the media room with the longest in-wall run being ~50ft. They'll all be of different lengths, but I'll certainly leave several feet of "service loop" at each end.
Ken.
VaSSallo Series M60v2, VP100v2, QS8v2
SVS SB12-Plus
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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axiomite
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What a great post! Quote:
There seem to be two common explanations for the "equal length speaker wires" idea. The first dates back to vacuum tube amplifiers with output transformers and higher output impedences, where (for some reason) the impedence of the speaker cable made a greater difference than it did today. I never understood that one.
The other reason was to sell more speaker wire. I understand that one
The cheap Home Depot (etc..) speaker wire with the clear insulation has had a few reports of corrosion, but even that seems to be caused by the insulation rather than the copper. My favorite speaker wire is the jacketed stuff sold by Home Depot -- it's cheap, in-wall rated, easy to strip, and looks good on the floor if a bit "industrial".
The Axiom cable is felt to be very high quality, but the quality shows in relatively subtle ways -- the fine strands make the wire bend more easily (which makes hookup and troubleshooting easier), the insulation is tough but strips easily, it looks good etc...
Just make sure you know the reasons for buying better speaker cable and the right choice for you should become more clear. You can't really go wrong, although I tend to stay away from the clear HD 12 gauge just because it's a bit of a pain to work with and won't lie flat.
Jack
"People generally quarrel because they cannot argue." - G. K. Chesterton
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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buff
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I am glad this came up, pulling the trigger tonight on a m80 setup and am now thinking about the details i.e. the cables. I already read about high end cables being snake oil, so I am ready to do a bulk wire purchase. Someone mentioned Home Depot, I just wanted to throw one more out there I am thinking about...Any advantages on using cable from monoprice.com? I found bulk cable hereI noticed they had gotten a best of 2006 award from secrets of home theater site.
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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BlueJeansCable is my pick. Great cables, great price, great customer service.
Axiom M60s, QS4s, VP100 Onkyo TX-SR804 Oppo 970HD
Rotel RB-1080/RCD-1072 REL Q150E sub, PS 3
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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I like how the Axiom is very flexible since it needs to bend somewhat and have 2 pairs of wires fit inside the little molding I have. I don't know much about their wires but I hope its better quality than monster cable stuff. I'll post some pics tonight.
Last edited by ereed; 03/30/07 03:23 AM.
Axiom M60s, VP150, QS8s, EP500 -- Rotel 1075 & 1068 -- Panasonic BDT500 -- Panasonic 60S60
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Monster=quality=snakeoil If you want to pay for a name go for it.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Is paying for axiom wire a brand name? hehe Just messing. Ok, just uploaded the pics on photobucket. This is the molding with temporary wire. Pic
Last edited by ereed; 03/30/07 04:10 AM.
Axiom M60s, VP150, QS8s, EP500 -- Rotel 1075 & 1068 -- Panasonic BDT500 -- Panasonic 60S60
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Here are couple more pics of the system so far. Forget my horrible painting (brush strokes) and focus on the equipment and speakers. How is it so far? Pic1 Pic2 Pic3
Axiom M60s, VP150, QS8s, EP500 -- Rotel 1075 & 1068 -- Panasonic BDT500 -- Panasonic 60S60
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Yeah Eric, you're right about the painting, but the equipment is looking good and the only point about placement that comes to mind is that the QSs might be spread even a little more(pic 3).
-----------------------------------
Enjoy the music, not the equipment.
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Well, if you wanted to be ABSOLUTELY technically correct, you would calculate the group propagation velocities in the cable.
BOTTOM LINE: at audio frequencies, for that length of cable run, YOU WOULD NEVER HEAR THE DIFFERENCE.
LOL!!!!
The Rat.
M80s, VP-150, QS8s,
SVS PC 20-39+, OPPO,
Onkyo 703s, Harmony 880
Sony 60" SXRD HDTV
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Quote:
BlueJeansCable is my pick. Great cables, great price, great customer service.
I agree, the Belden cable they offer is awsome. Only downside is that the strands are very thick, so they don't "lay" nicely on the floor without some manipulating.
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Try the Canare quad star. That actually works pretty well as far as lying there.
I am the Doctor, and THIS... is my SPOON!
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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I suggest you experiment with toeing in your fronts. Also, try flipping your centre upside down although you may not need to do this depending on where you are sitting. Finally, if possible, experiment with bringing the fronts out from the wall. You'll experience less diffraction and therefore better clarity/detail. You can always put them back against the wall when you are finished listening. This would be a good reason to stay away from spikes.
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Eric,
That is one fine setup you've got there. It looks great to me. The QS placement should work well as they look like you have centered them to the seating area of the room. I agree that you could pull the mains a little more into the room (and adjust distances accordingly in your pre/receiver), but it wouldn't need to be very far, maybe 8-12 inches or so? Just try it as suggested and do whatever sounds best. I think you've got the center oriented the right way, but maybe prop something small under the back edge to aim it slightly down at the listeners ears. Maybe you already have done this as it is hard to tell from the photos. I'm sure it sounds great as is, all the other tweaking is best done over time anyway.
Enjoy and thanks for sharing the great photos.
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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I have the mains spread out 8 feet apart and its 10 inches out from the wall. I'm sitting 10 to 11 feet away from the screen/speakers. I'm not sure how much I should toe in but I have about 1 inch toe in (if you measure from wall to speaker one end is 10 inches, other outside end is 11 inches from wall). I decided not to use the rubber stopper ball things for my QS8 speakers and I sticked them to the back (4 spread across) of the VP150 to aim it closer down to the listeners. The QS8s are spread out about 13 feet apart and about 8 feet high. I could have spread that one QS8 but its an open hallway there and I wanted the sound to remain in the room and not going out into the hallway and there is no side wall there for the sound to reflect back anyway. Now just need some furniture, speaker wire, video and audio calibration.
Axiom M60s, VP150, QS8s, EP500 -- Rotel 1075 & 1068 -- Panasonic BDT500 -- Panasonic 60S60
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Looks like this thread went from choosing speaker wire to speaker placement. lol
Axiom M60s, VP150, QS8s, EP500 -- Rotel 1075 & 1068 -- Panasonic BDT500 -- Panasonic 60S60
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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I love these speaker wire threads…..too funny. They are great entertainment on a rainy day with nothing better to do.
I have no opinion one way or the other about sound degradation other than I can’t tell a difference. I’ve got Mono-price, Blue Jeans, Home Depot and Axiom speaker wire. They all work just fine without any difference in SQ as far as I can tell. I was leery about Mono-price as cheap as they are, but their stuff sure looks and feels like it’s very well made. I’ve got some of their HDMI cables that blew me away with how well made they appear (to me).
I did have a comment in regards to your surround speaker locations though. I’m assuming that you have a 5.1 set up?? If so, have you considered moving the Q’s to the side walls? I think you may like them better if you move them just slightly further back from perpendicular to your main seating area, and about six feet from the floor. If you have a 7.1 set up and the Q’s in the picture are the backs, I think you will like them positioned a little closer together. About six feet apart. I’m not certain, but I believe the sound will be more uniform from them if you were to move them both over the arch verses one over and one on the wall. I think that having one over the arch and one not, may make them sound a bit different seeing how one will not have a reflective surface. I say this only because I had a similar situation and could tell a difference. I ended up moving one of my SrB speakers.
For toe in on your mains, a friend that frequents this place once told me the best way to set that up is to aim them at an imaginary point about five feet directly behind the main listening position and make sure that the drivers are not equal distance from the side and rear wall. I’ve had good luck with that advice.
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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axiomite
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Quote:
aim them at an imaginary point about five feet directly behind the main listening position and make sure that the drivers are not equal distance from the side and rear wall.
This is how I have my mains set up, works for me as well.
Rick
"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." Sigmund Freud
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Same here Wid, actually I think I have mine aimed about 2ft behind the primary position. Soundstage and imaging are ideal. I need to measure the distance from the rear/side walls again since I got my 80's.
M80s VP180 4xM22ow 4xM3ic EP600 2xEP350
AnthemAVM60 Outlaw7700 EmoA500 Epson5040UB FluanceRT85
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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LIke Mike, I find speaker wire threads to be a nice entertainement break. This thread and this thread usually help these conversations along.
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Re: Speaker cable....which one would you get?
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Quote:
Here are couple more pics of the system so far. Forget my horrible painting (brush strokes) and focus on the equipment and speakers. How is it so far?
Pic1
Pic2
Pic3
What component rack are you using? I am currently looking for one and like the looks of what you have set up there.
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The component rack is schroers and schroers and they are from Berlin. I do not know their site and I bought it few years ago from another website which I also forgot. I tried doing a search and they didn't come up, not sure if they are still in business.
Axiom M60s, VP150, QS8s, EP500 -- Rotel 1075 & 1068 -- Panasonic BDT500 -- Panasonic 60S60
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Agghh.....I found it!!!!!!! Go here Look at the Audio collection link. The one I have is the Deltastatic model. These racks are not cheap but I find them to be very good quality and like the looks and options you can do with these racks.
Last edited by ereed; 04/01/07 03:25 PM.
Axiom M60s, VP150, QS8s, EP500 -- Rotel 1075 & 1068 -- Panasonic BDT500 -- Panasonic 60S60
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