Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater I am just not TOTALLY impressed....

So I got all my speakers in today, and set them up very quickly, and only had about 15 minutes to sit down and listen....so this is by no means my official opinion of these...just my first impression.

I just got in a pair of m22ti's for fronts, vt150 for the center, and qs8's for the surrounds. Everything is hooked up to a pioneer elite vsx-41 (or whatever the exact model is, I am at work and too lazy too look it up...), and I have an Athena p2 (8" 100w sub) for the subwoofer. the m22's are on 16" stands, about 7 ft apart, 8 ft from the listening position. the QS8's are attached to the wall, about 5.5ft up, and about 6 inches behind and about 6 feet from the listening position.

I tossed in the fifth element, did not change any of the receiver settings....its setup now lits its fresh out of the box. I was quite let down by the m22ti's...maybe I was just expecting too much. The QS8's on the other hand....wow. I have had a few different combinations for surrounds along with listening to friend's setup and many in stores before purchasing a setup this time, and about 4 yrs ago. And still all i can say about these QS8's is...wow. Nice job axiom.

Any pointers on how to get the m22's shining like they do for everyone else....fill me in, i'm all for your advice. Now I just have to wait until 11pm so i can get off work and go back and listen to the surrounds again....wow =)

It takes time.. As you already have found with the Q's, the quaility is there.. Now the fun begins..
The Q's are very forgiving when it comes to placement, with the VP's being next.. Mains take time to work out that best location..
Drop in a movie or music, grab a cold one, relax, and give it some time.. Moving the 22's a bit here and there..
You might also want to check the receivers output levels for the surrounds/center/mains/sub, in case one of those adjustments has gotten out of wack..

Definately get the speaker levels right. You may also want to toe the M22's in just a bit. (Point them slightly toward your sweet spot, rather than firing straight ahead.)

Also...and this is important. You've got to get the sub and M22's crossover set up right.

Good luck and have some fun with it! Glad to hear the raves for the QS8's. They're my next Axiom purchase.

the more you listen, mess around with settings, as others are helping me to do, the more you'll realize how great they sound. others are still helping me with m60's, settings, and sub settings. even though i connected my system incorrectly for about 4 months, it didn't sound bad. now with the proper wiring, large and small speaker settings, and adjustments to the sub crossover, it sounds better. if it still sounds lousy, keep asking questions as i do. everybody here is friendly and knowledgable (sp?). maybe you just need to crank it up some??
dan

Doubles, you haven't tried to describe specifically what it is that doesn't totally satisfy you about the sound or what you've been used to that you're comparing it with. You're very satisfied with the QS8s and as far as pure sound goes, the M22s are certainly even better. The QS8s of course have an extremely wide dispersion for handling surround sound. Your setup looks okay physically, so the only thing I'd suggest is to check the calibration, especially that the level of the M22s is high enough. I can assure you that they're excellent speakers and that you can't find significantly better speakers of the type.

I will be unable to help you until you explain what facet displeases you.

Like I said, I only have a VERY limited time to do some listening. Of course I know it will take a little playing around to get everything how I think it sounds best.

What I think is wrong with the setup as it is now....i just dont feel like "im there" (if you know what i mean). That is why I was so impressed with the QS8's....they made me feel like I had another 10 ft of room behind my couch.

I am not saying anything about the sound quality of the QS8's, since not much went back to them to judge that by, but the way they made the surround sound environment feel "real", once again...wow.

I know exactly what you mean. I have a very similar setup and at first I was disappointed too. The trick that did it for me is the level setting on the reciver. My receiver (HK 525) settings were default to 0 db. I got them upto 10 db and the difference is unbelievable. Try that and hear the detail!

My setup:
Ravi's setup

twop & ravi,
I posted this awhile ago when another Axiomophile was somewhat unimpressed with their first speaker set.
It essentially sums up my thoughts based on my first day of listening to my new M60s and relates EXACTLY to the same thoughts expressed so far in this thread.
(The upper green part is probably the most relevant).

I just went home over lunch and did a little playing around. I turned my fronts and centers to +8 (kinda chuckled when I read you turned yours up to 10...i know exactly what you must have been hearing). It definitely sounded a lot better. What I did notice was on my receiver, I had to have the volume turned up over half to get it at "acceptable" volumes....nothing extreme either, just a good listening level. It still just seems something is missing...Im assuming its the sub at this point.

I pulled out my pink floyd albums and listed to "wish you were here"....sounded pretty damn good i'll have to admit. Hopefully tomorrow I can do a little playing around w/ the sub.

What did these replace?

I am assuming you meant what home theatre setup did I have before?

I have not had any home theatre setup for approximately the last 3 yrs. Before that, I had owned all JBL SVA model setup for probably 4-5 yrs....amazing set of speakers at their price, hard to track down anymore.
Sub was an infinity poo-banging sub....i did not care for it much, but it did the job.
Everything was hooked up to a Sony ES receiver

I Have two 2 channel setups in that same period as well. I had a pair of Energy Connoisseur C-5's with a NAD c340 amp, and was lucky enough to own a pair of magnepan 1.6r for a short time until the cats moved in....damn cats!

Interesting....it was recommended to me when I first set things up to keep all of the speaker levels as close to 0 as possible and to use the volume knob to makes things louder. I wonder why this improved sound for you.

The sound was very laid back with levels at 0 db even with increased volume. Since both me and my wife like the Martin Logan and Paradigm Studio type of sound very much,this was very disappointing. I do not know the science behind it, but after increasing the levels, the sound became much more detailed, almost indistinguishable from Paradigm.

By the way, is there any harm in turning up the levels? I mean am I damaging any equipment?

http://members.cox.net/axiomaudio/

There are a few quick low quality pics of my setup as it is now. Forgive the mess, I just moved into my new place 3 days ago.

There shouldn't be any harm in it. I'd be curious to hear from some of the people that recommended close to 0 for all levels for me though to see if they can explain this. I'd have to dig through old forum messages to find out who it was...hopefully you know who you are.

If your front speakers are not properly calibrated in terms of sound levels, then there is no way you will get an accurate impression. I would actually try listening to some good 2-channel CDs to get a feeling for the M22s alone.

With the lower impedance of the surrounds, I believe they will draw more current and create a lot more sound at the same voltage level, so you may drop the rears in level a bit and keep the fronts a bit above 0.

The M22s have quite good imaging, especially at low volumes, so I would say your receiver is not well-calibrated or you need to play with room placement. I find that I have to spend many hours listening to a wide variety of CDs before I get a firm, stable impression of audio equipment.

Additionally, I wouldn't be surprised if the M22's get improved bass response after you've really broken them in. I believe mine are still breaking in after ~15 hours of hard use, though I have not yet noticed a change in the bass frequencies. The bottom line is to get comfortable with the speakers and either properly calibrate your surround sound or do your critical listening in 2-channel mode.

-Cooper

cblake,

Thats what is bothering me...for 2 channel audio, i really dig the audio. My sub is not wanting to play nicely with them though, as soon as I get that worked out, it will be great im sure.

For home theatre though, I still dont feel like "im there" I feel like i am just watching the movie, listening on a set of speakers. Hard to explain other than just that. It just seems real flat and no real depth.

I'm having a little trouble understanding the reason behind turning speaker trims up 10db. All this does is turn the volume up on a particular channel. Can you explain the effect this is having for you?

curtis

I, too, am confused. Setting channel levels higher should have no effect other than to boost the signal. How does it make it sound better than just turning up the volume?

I believe some more blind tests are in order.

This may sound stupid, and you probably checked it, but...

When watching the movie make sure you are in Dolby 5.1 or DTS. I felt the same way watching my first movie, only to realize later that I was listening in Pro Logic II. Once I realized my error, things were MUCH better.

Now you really have me worried zarak...that was one of my concerns. Every receiver I have used before made it very clear that it was either in DD or DTS....I am not 100% sure on this pioneer elite though. The display shows digital, and I have scoured the manual probably 20 times trying to verify this.

Any familiar w/ these receivers that can put my mind at ease?

Hi twopecker,

If you are feeding your DVD player's signal via a coaxial digital or optical output to your Pioneer, the digital "flag" in the DVD's output stream should cause your Pioneer to automatically go into the Dolby Digital 5.1 mode (if the soundtrack is 5.1; not all are. You can have DD 2.1).

Do you have a good alignment setup DVD, like the Sound&Vision Home Theater Tune-Up disc? If not, get it, and a Radio Shack SPL meter as well. How big a room are you using this system in?

Regards,

Not sure about the receiver; often they display a picture of all the active speakers, which should show 5 + a subwoofer.

I would try watching the movie in stereo mode, though. Set it to Surround off or Stereo or something similar, and see how it sounds. Are you aware that much of the front sound field is generated by the center speaker? This is particularly true with speech.

When I've gone from stereo to surround sound, I've sometimes felt disappointed by the lack of stereo imaging, simply because I was not used to so much coming from the middle. Maybe what is bothering you is either a) not hearing enough of the main speakers, or b) the volume on the center speaker is too low. If a) is the issue, you can try running a "phantom" center channel, which simply sends all the center channel sound to the mains. Most still prefer using the center, though.

Try bumping the volume on the center channel (now both the mains and center should be at positive volume). Maybe lower the volume of the surrounds as well. You may simply be describing a home theater setup with way too much bias to the rear. This makes the rear "sound great" while leaving the front "dull" and without impact. Properly balancing your channels is essential to good home theater sound.

-Cooper

Alan,

I am using digital coax for the signal from the dvd player, and I verified that it is set to output a DD signal. So I *think* that is playing in DD 5.1, just an assurance would be nice.

I have a copy of video essentials arriving shortly I assume. I have seen many people on this board reccomend the Sound&Vision disk though...any huge difference?

My listening room is 12ftx14ft.

Thanks for you help!

Just another note here....

my complaint is definitely not with the speakers here anymore....I am sure it is a setup issue for home theatre.

I have caught myself throwing in one of my Pink Floyd or James Taylor CD's and not moving until the entire thing has played. The last time I did that was with my Magnepan setup.

The home theatre side of it is just not there yet, and since this will probalby be used 80%ht/20%stereo, I am just askign a ton of questions to get as much help as possible to get it to where it needs to be.

Oh, good, I'm glad it's not just memory coloring things for me; I thought that the M22s were right up there with the Maggies, although it was months between the times I heard them. The Maggies, of course, had a "taller" soundstage, but I think that's sort of an effect of them being, oh, I don't know, 5 1/2 ft tall!