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#177058 - 09/20/07 08:54 PM 40...80 hz cross-overs
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3397
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
I have recently come into possession of a new receiver (yes, those who are following these threads know it is an Onkyo 805, but it is not relevant to this post). OK. So, here is my experiment. The receiver allows me any settings from 40hz to 150hz by 10hz increments.

My mains are M80, subwoofer is EP-500. For the past 3 hours, I have been trying 80hz, 60hz and 40hz for the M80s. So far, for music (classical), I seem to prefer the 40hz setting... but, quite honestly--and I have a good ear--I cannot tell of THAT MUCH a difference (a spectacular tribute to the musicality of the EP-500) betwween each settign unless I put my hand on the EP-500 and I can tell than there is definite difference in vibration level (so the crossover IS a factor).

My question to all of my fellow Axiom owners and lovers (how can this NOT BE a direct own/love relationship!) is as follow: Have any of you used a receiver capable of that much "resolution" in its digital cross-overs with an equivalent set of speakers and experimented with those x-overs.

THE REAL QUESTION: For music, it is a no-brainer for me that, givent the depth of the M80, a cross-over of 40hz is more likely to give me more balanced/controlled basses than 80z. BUT, will that come to the cost that most movies will not give me such a great response (at 40hz for the mains) as I have been having since I have the Ep-500?

SUMMARY OF QUESTION: Have any of you had to deal with a music/movie cross-over dilemma with these speakers before, and what were your conclusions?

Thanks in advance.
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
AxiomAir/6xM2/4xM22/2xVP150/2xM3

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#177059 - 09/20/07 09:57 PM Re: 40...80 hz cross-overs [Re: EFalardeau]
chesseroo Offline
axiomite

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 5171
Loc: western canada
I have my M60s and EP350 set with a crossover of around 50Hz and i use them full range for music and movies.
I don't prefer the sound of the subwoofer at higher frequencies. I find it too bassy and turning down the gain only provides weaker explosions for movies.
Whatever blend you find sounds good to you, use it.
Don't worry about the 'rule' quoters on the necessity to use only a Dolby Digital point of 80Hz, etc etc.

Do what sounds good to you, period.
_________________________
"Those who preach the myths of audio are ignorant of truth."

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#177060 - 09/20/07 10:31 PM Re: 40...80 hz cross-overs [Re: EFalardeau]
SirQuack Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 13565
Loc: Iowa
I'm not familiar with the 805. If it allows you to select different crossover settings for the different speakers, you will want to experiment and look at the specs for each speaker in your setup.

You may want to have a higher setting for the Q's and the VP150 compared to the 80's.

I've done lots experimentation with music and movies and I find the 80hz crossover with everything set to small works best for all situations. My Denon only allows for one universal crossover setting. Also, a lot has to do with proper sub placement and calibration to blend with the mains.
_________________________
M80s-VP180-4xM22ow-4xM3ic-EP600-2xEP350
Anthem AVM60 Outlaw 7700 Emotiva A500 Epson 5040UB



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#177061 - 09/20/07 10:36 PM Re: 40...80 hz cross-overs [Re: EFalardeau]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4613
I spent hundreds of hours tweaking my system and at least 60 hours on the EP600. This included moving speakers around.

So here were my conclusions from the whole experience in my 4,000 cubic foot, bright room:

1. EP600 sub moved away from the corner.

2. EP600 set to flat and no cross-over and calibrated to 80dB.

3. All speakers set to small. They are not all calibrated to 75dB as I had to adjust some by ear to get the desired effects (see link below).

4. Denon x-over at 60Hz for stereo and 80Hz for all movies.

5. Denon x-over at 80Hz for PLIIx movies and music.

6. Stereo: listen at calibrated levels.

7. PLIIx for music: for some pieces (jazz and classical), lower the volume on the fronts by 5dB to deepen the sound-stage. For all other pieces, use calibrated levels. For some other pieces, go to a phantom centre.

8. PLIIx for TV/cable: calibrated levels

9. PLIIx for movies: calibrated levels but sometimes boost the center as required. A couple of times I used a phantom center.

10. Dolby and DTS for music and movies: calibrated levels with some minor and movie-dependent adjustment on the centre.

Now just because this works for me, it doesn't mean it works for everyone. Nonetheless, it gives you some ideas you can experiment with.

I'll also point you to this.

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#177062 - 09/20/07 10:40 PM Re: 40...80 hz cross-overs [Re: chesseroo]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4613
I agree with Chess. Do what sounds good to you. The trick is to tweak until you are satisfied that you should tweak no more. It took me 6 months and hundreds of hours but I'm there now. All additions to or removals from the room have to go through an acoustical audit .

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#177063 - 09/20/07 10:44 PM Re: 40...80 hz cross-overs [Re: SirQuack]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3397
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
Yeap. I used to have a one-settings-for-all receiver (at 90hz) . As far as central speakers, surrounds are concerned, Axiom quality makes them perfect at 80hz. But the M80 can go REALLY deep (33hz). And the EP-500 is an astoundingly precise sub (no kidding, it is such a steal at 1.3K$). So it is an actual dilemma.

Right now, I have set the x-over of M80 to 60hz. I would love to tell you that I hear a big difference... well I don't. I prefer it, but I cannot shake the specter of total subjectivity. BTW, if you are an Axiom owner/fan, this is the best type of problem you can get: two products that are so SO GOOD, that you don`t know to wich you should give preferences.
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
AxiomAir/6xM2/4xM22/2xVP150/2xM3

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#177064 - 09/20/07 11:00 PM Re: 40...80 hz cross-overs [Re: Mojo]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3397
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
Thanks a lot. Many of these suggesttions I am doing already; some I will consider applying. There are a few million options... so whenever someone's expiments are allowing me to focus on the best potential result, it is good. So, again, thanks a lot for your 4 cents! It is quite appreciated.
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
AxiomAir/6xM2/4xM22/2xVP150/2xM3

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#177065 - 09/20/07 11:14 PM Re: 40...80 hz cross-overs [Re: EFalardeau]
Mojo Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 01/21/07
Posts: 4613
Quote:

So, again, thanks a lot for your 4 cents!




Well, let's see. A few hundred hours at $200/hour. Certainly more than 4 cents .

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#177066 - 09/20/07 11:22 PM Re: 40...80 hz cross-overs [Re: EFalardeau]
JohnK Offline
shareholder in the making

Registered: 05/11/02
Posts: 10621
Eric, obviously both the M80s and the EP500 are very capable in that 60Hz area. If you don't have a significant preference, my view would be to favor a higher setting, probably 80Hz, to give the EP500 more work to do and relieve the M80s(and the receiver driving them)from more of the low bass load.
_________________________
-----------------------------------

Enjoy the music, not the equipment.



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#177067 - 09/21/07 06:58 AM Re: 40...80 hz cross-overs [Re: Mojo]
EFalardeau Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 08/27/07
Posts: 3397
Loc: Laval, Quebec, Canada
hey! It's four cents Canadian! It's actually worth something now!
_________________________
E = MC2 = ((2M80 + VP180 + 4QS8)/(EP800 + EP500))^(ADA1500 x D2v)
AxiomAir/6xM2/4xM22/2xVP150/2xM3

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