Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Axiom products being tested in Erie ...

Straight from there site " Free UPS Ground Shipping So it weighs as much as your house. So what? We figured we'd do another unthinkable thing and foot the bill for the shipping charges on this monster. Only for US 48 States".

I'd buy one if I lived a little more south, but then again I would have to use it for my house if I did.

That's just unbelievable. I have no idea how they can offer something like that and still make a decent profit.

Seems to me like they are just trying to obliterate the competition and just might do it.

Hey Craig, good to see you're doing well my friend.

I can testify that the ED A7-900 sounded terrific with music. However, it was in an outdoor situation (no room interaction). I'm not that good at guestimating distances, but I'd wager we were around 200 feet from the ED and a pair of old Klipsch Cornwalls, and the combination sounded absolutely fantastic!

In the photo below, you can see where we were sitting on the patio, and you can see one of the Cornwalls in the garage opening in the background. The sub was in the garage opening to the right of the Cornwall.




I would recommend that all keep in mind that these are Craig's opinions and evaluations. There is no "right" or "wrong" about them. We all have the choice of accepting or or rejecting his findings as we chose.

For example, John (Jakeman) doesn't rate the new SVS Ultra as highly as does Craig. Neither guy is wrong. We are not dealing with absolutes here.

I would also remind all that this is not a list of one great sub and a bunch of junk. Because a given sub doesn't score at the top doesn't mean it's a piece of crap. I have an EP500, which scores somewhere in the middle of Craig's list, and I don't feel in the least deprived. My EP500 does everything I want and need.

I would love to see Craig break his list into groups of Outstanding, Excellent, Great, Good, etc., or something similar, just to make the point that there are a lot of subwoofers worthy of consideration on that list.
I'll let Craig elaborate, but I know he uses a combination of measurements and listening evaluations to reach his conclusions.

Craig, if I have misled anyone, or misrepresented anything, I will not mind if the least if you correct me and set things straight.

Jack, other than we also get a variety of opinions on the subs, that is a pretty good summary.

There are SO many other variables, such as subwoofer size, looks, etc ... that come into play. For example, in the past 2 weeks, guys needed something fairly compact, but with high output ... and for under $1500. The EP-500 is perfect for that need.

If size and looks are no object, the A7-900 is amazing.

For REALLY compact, yet stellar performance, one needs to experience the JL Audio Fathom. From what I am seeing, it is like the model 400 on steroids.

The new Ultra-13 is a medium-large sub that is pretty good looking, yet delivers super-sub performance.

The Fathoms are twice the price of the 400 though and even more if you want the low frequency performance of the 400. Craig, have you heard the Fathom and the 400? I love the front-mounted controls of these subs.

The ED box is too impractical in my opinion. I couldn't imagine getting it down my basement stairs. For something with this amount of power, does it matter where it is placed in a 4,000 cubic foot room?

It looks like you made a mistake posting here. Now we'll never let you go .

Greetings Craig. Good to see you posting here again and spreading your wisdom, and I'm not just talking about subs. I hope it helps your healing.

As Jack pointed out its not necessary or even desirable that we all have the same views about these generally great subs. Everyone's objectives and listening requirements are going to differ and there are certain aspects of bass reproduction which only come across when comparing subs side by side which is my preferred way of determining relative performance.

Jack mentioned I don't have as high regard for the Ultra-13 as Craig. Actually I think its a very good HT sub but in the Richmond Hill shootout I preferred the JL113 and the DD-18 for music over it while Craig ranks them lower on both counts. The JL113 which I also own performs so much better with music and almost as good with HT so I do rank it superior to the Ultra overall. I disregard the fact that the amp in the Ultra has a high failure rate.

Also in our listening session with Jack, Craig, Ray and Bossobass at Craig's place in 2005 the overall consensus was the EP500 was better sounding than the old SVS Ultra yet Craig's ranking has them the same. That's fine and the ranking is a terrific indicator of relative performance as Craig sees it.

One principle we both share involves putting as much or more emphasis on listening tests as we do on graphical measurements. The specs and graphs never show the complete story yet it never fails to amaze me how many people can make mountains out of an inconsequential measurement.

Hello Craig,

Great to see you posting here again. Many months ago, I had pm'd you at AVS about the EP-500 and your reply was "I think you will be floored at what the EP-500 adds to the mix. Until you have experienced powerful 20 Hz bass, you don't know what you are missing. It is a great addition for the $1200." You had the admirable strength of judgement to simply advise me on my consideration and didn't offer up a "better" sub by pushing your rankings dictate my choice. You deserve a lot of credit for taking the time to test the subs ("it's just a hobby,"...right?) and keeping common sense intact.

John

PS: Like Jack, who also echoed your sentiments, I am enjoying my EP-500 tremendously.

Mojo - I have not experienced the 400 as of yet, but after reading John's (jakeman's) posts, it may get added this winter.

John - When we do the tests here, they are not only level matched, but the subs are listened to blind and we also use a Velodyne SMS-1 to EQ them. It isn't so much that the Ultra sounded "better" to anyone than the Velodyne or the Fathom ... it just had more visceral punch in the really deep stuff - below 25 Hz.

When testing is done blind, people are often surprised at the results, including their own. Of course, blind testing us rather a chore, and not necessary unless someone is crazy enough to post results in a ratings scale.

If one looks at the ratings, "HT" and "M" ratings are given for each unit, and in the case of the old Ultra vs. the EP-500, the 500 "won" the music by 4 points, while the Ultra "won" HT by 4 points.

The Ultra gained in, for example, its output at 16 Hz in the WOTW Pods emerge scene.

The ratings are also not just "mine". I get input from guys who build systems for large arenas - such as one of the new Casinos in Niagara Falls.

The ratings as a points setting is hopefully "some" help in narrowing down a subwoofer purchase. I leave out such items as size, finish, etc ... as those are pretty easily read.

And ... in regards to Axiom ... I had a VERY early EP-500 here. It will be interesting to see (well, hear) if the driver has improved at all ... the EP-350.3 will have some very good competition, for sure.

Finally ... Ian knows about this, and so does Jack.

I will be entering the audio world soon ... specifically in 2 areas:

1. Room treatments, including Bass Traps and diffusors.
2. Entry level audio equipment ... a place to send your friends for good stuff ... when they won't spend $1300 on an entry level Axiom 5.1 system.