Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater EP-500 Crossover/thought I had it all figured out!

While troubleshooting Toshiba's HD-XA2 player's lack of LFE, I re-read the EP-500 manual. In there, it says to set the crossover on the sub to the same or slightly higher setting than the AVR.

I thought it should just be set to bypass (making it crossover push of 150Hz). Am I wrong? does it matter since my AVR is doing the bass management?

Axiom discovered that better integration with the main channels may occur by using both crossovers. YMMV, but it's worth a shot. I believe I have my sub set to bypass since a cursory test with it enabled at 80Hz didn't yield a discernible improvement.

I've read the same information from Alan and Ian. To me the jury is still out on this setup. I currently also use Bypass on the sub and let the receiver manage the LFE. Until recently, this is what Axiom as preached.

In my testing/graphs, I have not noticed a benefit for matching the crossover on both.

I should also note that it didn't appear to hurt the sound, but I defer to Randy for details as I didn't do any graphing.

That does seem odd, unless you are running 5.1 analog from the player to the receiver in which case (depending on brand) your receiver might be doing a straight pass-through and relying on the bass management in the player.

Well, since you were all rude enough to post well-informed responses while I was carefully composing my "I dunno" answer, I guess I'll go find another thread to hang out in.

Hmpph.

Today's new and expensive discovery. Ultrasound for dogs. So much for the EP600 fund.

Well, since you were all rude enough to post well-informed responses while I was carefully composing my "I dunno" answer, I guess I'll go find another thread to hang out in.

Hmpph.

Today's new and expensive discovery. Ultrasound for dogs. So much for the EP600 fund.

You need to ditch that dial-up.

Han, there was some discussion here on that point a few months ago. I experimented a bit and found no benefit in adding the internal sub filter. I continue to set it on bypass, which was the suggestion in the manual at the time that I got my EP500 about a year ago.

Hi Hansang,

As pmbuko correctly pointed out, the reason we changed the instructions in the EP500 manual was to take into account some experiments and listening tests that Ian Colquhoun and Tom Cumberland of Axiom did with the EP500's crossover set to bypass and compared those with the crossover set to 80 Hz or somewhat higher.

The rationale behind this was that the "brick-wall" nature of the DSP filter in the EP500 might cause a sag in frequency response between 100 Hz and the integration of the satellite speakers. I didn't participate in the tests and when I tried it with my own EP500, using both M22s and M80 v2s, I couldn't discern any difference. However, I trust Ian and Tom's conclusions.

I suggest you try it both ways, with the EP500's crossover set to bypass and your AV receivers bass management set to 80 Hz, and then with the EP500 crossover set to 80 Hz or higher together with the AV receiver at 80 Hz. Listen to the bass region between 80 Hz and 150 Hz to see if there's any difference.

Regards,

Alan

I see. Thank you very much. I'll give it a shot this weekend.

I am confused. Does the crossover on the EP500 have any effect when using the line in? I thought it only came into play with the High Level Input.

It doesn't make sense to have a crossover on the line in, I would want the EP500 to play everything it gets from the receiver after it is crossed over by the receiver.

Maret, the "crossover"(actually it's just a low-pass filter on the sub, not a full crossover)affects either the line level or high level inputs unless it's set to "bypass". As mentioned, I didn't find any benefit in adding it to the filtering on the sub that the receiver was already doing. Note that the amended direction in the manual now suggests setting it at or above the highest receiver crossover set, so the effect would be to increase the steepness of the rolloff of the sub above that same frequency, compared to what would result from the receiver filter alone.

Thanks for clarifying that for me!

I would agree with you. The issue involves which configuration best blends the speakers and sub. What is unique with the EP subs is the steep brickwall filters unlike the gradual 12hz, 18hz or 24hz/ octave rolloffs found in most subs. While there may be some speakers and rooms that may benefit from these "cascading" crossovers, I would avoid engaging both filters because of the likelhood of creating phase anomolies and other artifacts.

Han,

After almost a year of tweaking, I've settled on a 40Hz cross-over in my Denon and 600 for movies and most music. While this leaves a 35Hz gap in my surrounds, I haven't found it to be a problem. I enjoy the "tight" sound of the 600 when it is crossed over this way.

I've found that this setting works for all movies in my environment but not necessarily music. I find I have to very often tweak the cross-over settings depending on the music I'm listening to.

Regardless of the setting, the 600 blends in beautifully with all speakers.

Would it be too impossible for subs to come with a remote for all adjustments--gain, crossover, phase, and whatever else there may be? I know some manufacturer's offer this, but I wish it was standard. It is so much easier to make and hear the differences between tweaks while I'm sitting in the listening position. I hate having to get up, walk over to the sub, make a minute adjustment to the dial, sit back down, and think, "Does that sound any different?"

Yes, I'm lazy, but I also have a mediocre ear that can't pick up small changes unless they are presented back to back.

I have to say, that would be very convenient.

Agreed.

Likewise.

You must have just gotten back from vacation, Tex...

No, I'm on vacation still .

Found a computer, then.

Yep. I'm in the so-called teen room of the hotel and I've been hogging the only PC. I have a bunch of teens sitting around me on the couches probably waiting for me to get off. But they haven't said a word and I'm not budging .

Teen girls?

Any of the DD subs by Velodyne come with a remote which lets you adjust settings.

Thanks, John. I knew I had come across that info somewhere. I wish all other manufacturers would follow suit.

Velodyne was one of the first companies to implement DSP into their subwoofers. I have a DD-18 with a remote but I have to admit that I don't use the remote very often. It is handy when calibrating or when switching between settings for music, action movies, jazz, theatre etc.

Teens of all sexes and races.

And they're back now and here I am. Boy, are they pissed .

Time for breakfast so I think I'll let them have the PC.

thanks for that. I haven't thought about going as low as 40Hz ('course I have the 500 not 600). I'll play around with it some more. I like the sound that I have now, but at times, it can be a little boomy. I've been trying out the demo disc from AVS "HT Demo" thread. Will post my comments in a different thread.