Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Hocus Pocus Sound quality tweaks?

Last week I was visiting a website that sells speaker cables, interconnects, power cables and everything in between. What kind of intrigued me was the outrageous claims they made about their products. If you do not hear a "SIGNIFICANT" improvement in sound quality , send the product back for a FULL refund. I decided to try one of their power cables. What did I have to lose right? I even called the company and the guy on the other end told me, try the cable if you don't love it, send it back for a full refund, even postage!

So on Saturday I received the power cable. I invited 3 friends over that evening to evaluate this so called wonder power cable. I prefer evenings to do serious music listening. It's quieter, darker and easier to focus, I think anyways. One of my buddies that came has the best hearing of anyone I have ever met, almost scary. Anyways, I decided to hook the cable up to my CD player for the demo. I also decided that I would keep it a secret from my guests as to which cable they were listening to and to keep my opinions of the results if any to myself.

I put in a multichannel SACD by Allison Krause, Live at Union Station, track 4, disk two, into my Sony player with Mods by TRL. I would play this song 1/2 to 3/4 the way through, swap cables and replay the song. I did this 10 tens, 5 for each cable.

Unanimously, every single time they found the sound from one particular cable to sound better. I am not talking just a little better, but unbelievably clearer and crisper in sound.

They all thought they had picked my old cable, wrong. They picked the new cable.

Good news is, my system sounds even more awesome than it did. Bad news is that not only do I have to keep this cable for my CD player but I have to buy another one for my receiver.

Made a believer out of me...


Jerry in Calif

hmmm

This should bring in some interesting comments...

A believer in what? Name the website and the company! When someone "believes" like that, they can't help themselves mentionning the "magical" company every five seconds...

my thoughts exactly

The reason I didn't mention the Co. is that I feel it is inappropriate to advertise outside vendors here. Plus, it's not like they are paying me to promote the products.

WHAT????? These forum are full of endorsements of products that we all use. Some good, some not so good.

That comment is almost as ridiculous as the first one you posted saying the cable actually made a difference in sound!

Paul

My house, as with most homes in North America use 14/2 copper wire to transfer 110V 15 amps of electricity from the panel to the outlet. Assuming there is a good connection at the panel and the outlet, and as long as the cable going from your outlet to your audio component is as good as 14/2, logic would dictate that the sound would be the same.

The theory of constraints says that you must work on the weakest link in a chain to make the chain stronger. In this case the weakest link would be the 14/2 wire in your walls.

I am not saying you and your buddies did not hear a difference. However, I am asking for some type of scientific proof. What is the scientific measurable basis for such a claim that a cable from the outlet to an audio component improves sound quality?

It isn't like you are taking money away from Axiom as they do not sell power cables, so fess up and let us know these miracle workers so the rest of us can enjoy "significant" improved sound quality.

By you not mentioning the name of the company and product specifics, your credibility with me and I am sure with other's here is less than zero.

You say you found a wonderful way to improve sound quality but won't share the secret with the rest of us. The claims you make are difficult enough to believe based on logic, but by not allowing others to try your recommendation, your claims and findings can't be substantiated.

In other words your post has no value and is pretty much useless to the rest of us.

Sarcasm rears its ugly head. If I had of mentioned the company that I purchased the cables from in my post, I most certainly would have been crucified as a shield for the company. The value in my post, and my sympathy goes out to those unable to grasp this, was to share the fact that over the weekend I have found and now believe in that there actually is a difference in sound quality with different types of cables. My credibility? Tell someone who gives a flying F.

Merry Christmas

Happy New Year, prorepsvs...

I own a Rotel 1066 pre processor. In my opinion it's an awesome unit. I would recommend this to anyone that is looking at going separates. If anyone is interested please PM me and I will favorably discuss it's value.

I suppose now I should/will be crucified now as a shield for ROTEL.

BRING IT ON!!!!!!!

I am glad you found a tweak that helped your system sound beter. Thanks for NOTHING by not sharing the details with the rest of us. If you didn't care what we thought, why did you post it in the first place?

Paul

Why is it that you assume that you will be 'crucified' if you name the website?? Certainly, if you know much about these forums, others people's opinions on other products are constantly talked about, as they should be.

True, you may get replies that disagree with you, after all it is a contraversial subject...but look at the INSTANT cynicism you're getting for NOT naming this website!!

Simply name the site and let's continue discussing it... otherwise, your approach so far is very troll-like, and I don't blame some others here for being skeptical.

I simply feel that if you did get better sound from simply upgrading the power cord to your cd player, then you must have a problem with your old power cord, ie. too small, for the power requirements of the cd player.

Were all the power cords of the same gauge? grounded? You must really try to give more information or yes, you will have doubters flaming you.

Non of this to Spoiler but to the O/P.

My old cord was a very expensive analysis plus power cord. Certainly nothing wrong with it at all. This is why I was very shocked to hear any difference. Ok...I will name names...Mapleshade.com.

Also, I am awaiting another gadget from a company called Quantum. It is a simple inexpensive little gadget that you simply plug into your wall outlet (22kt gold) in my case, that is supposed to remove all the EMF electro magnetic fields from your wiring or something along those lines. Has something to do with Quantum physics, whatever it is, it is over my head. Price depends on size of area that you wish to cover. This gadget got a quite a review on 6moons.com and a couple of my audiophile nut buddies who have it swear by it. They claim that their system sounds better and that the TV picure quality has improved as well.

http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/quantum/pro.htmlt

When I get it I will test it myself and post the results in my normal unprofessional, unskilled, unbiased manner. Have to admit that I am as skeptical about this one as I was of the power cable.

Ho Ho Ho

The link isn't working. Comes up as document not found.

New link

http://www.sixmoons.com/audioreviews/quantum/pro.html

No t on the end...I think is the problem

I have it in a email to me...and it opens up fine.

You're right, it was the 't' on the end. I removed it for the 'New Link'

There are numerous little things that can be done on the cheap for your sound system such as vibrapods. The biggest improvement I have made by far was installing some acoustic panels...night and day difference.

I see a few people on this site talking about downloading music etc. Am I the only one here who only listens to 5.1 SACD's? Anything else to me sounds like nails on a chalkboard. Absolutely not even in the same league. Recently I spoke with Mr. Harley via email who is the editor of Absolute Sound mag and even he says that when distributors who mostly are 2 channel enthusiasts, come to visit him to promote their goods he takes them into his sound room puts on one of his fav 5.1 cd's and gets a big kick out of watching their jaws drop.

JK,

The only significant detail that one needs to worry about when selecting a power cable for home A/V applications is the gauge and the length. For any 6 - 9 foot cable, 14 gauge is perfectly acceptable and 12 gauge is most often used. The key characteristic that needs to be considered is the voltage drop across the cable. The difference in voltage drop between the OEM's cable and Mapleshade's cable is most likely very marginal. Even a drop of a few volts however is perfectly acceptable because power supplies are designed to be tolerant to input voltage and power frequency deviations.

All of the power cable claims made on the Mapleshade website are exaggerations of the truth. BTW, the 4.5' CLEARVIEW DOUBLE HELIX POWER CORD which retails for $150 consists of $2 worth of parts and 15 minutes of low-skilled labor. The research that Mapleshade conducted for this cable consisted of finding the lowest cost supplier for the 4 parts used.

However, if it sounds better to you, then by all means the $150 may very well be worth it. The only audio tweak that I personally have found to work is a shiny, smooth Canadian beaver on my EP600 :).

Re: quantum. I have to hand it to the scammers who dream this stuff up :).

The cable I bought was more than $150.00 one you mentioned. But its not the money that is in question, its the results. Anyone can be a naysayer, been there done that. I believe only in what I hear and most of the time not even that which is why I bring in others to listen and give honest unbiased opinions as well. Never knock something till you try it.

For every improvement to an audio system there must be some type of scientific basis for the improvement. Speakers sound better because of many things, including driver design, box design, crossovers, etc, CD players and processors because of DAC's, even amplifiers (big debate) due to power supplies and capacitors and board architecture. I'll even go so far as to say there is some evidence for anti-vibration tweaks. This makes sense and it is logical.

So if one power cord sounds better than another one, there must be a scientific reason for it. It's not just black magic or the hand of god.



Well HELLO, I'd like to try it, but since you won't give me/us the company name, I CAN'T!

Paul

He did, it is Mapleshade.com. I get there sales catalog and to say they sell questionable tweaks is an understatement.

Sorry, I missed that post; I do apologize for the last outburst.

I do have an interesting question for you, and I am being serious. Is the cord plugged directly from your DVD/CD player to the wall outlet, or do you have it plugged into a power bar or power conditioner/surge protector.

I am being genuinely curious. If you have it directly into the wall outlet, have you tried it in a power bar, does/did it make any difference in sound.

I truly believe that you and your friends heard a difference in sound quality; I am just trying to find out why? My engineering background forces me to trouble shoot these type of things, to help me find the answer.

Thanks

Paul

I am NOT touchin' that one! (Not that I wouldn't be tempted )

Thx JKP005 for letting us in on the site... much appreciated!

Jerry, it's more than a little difficult to take such reports seriously. From the standpoint of basic principles of audio technology there's not even a plausible reason set forth why replacing the power cord that the manufacturer supplied could make an audible difference. They would be sabotaging their own product by supplying a cord inadequate to allow for the performance they'd worked hard to design and manufacture. Audio equipment has a relatively low demand for power compared to such more demanding items as hairdryers and hotplates, and the cords supplied are more than adequate for the purpose.

Your own use of an expensive Analysis Plus cord previously would seem to indicate that you were hardly in the category of a "skeptic" previously and didn't have to be "shocked" into becoming a "believer", as you've mentioned. Looking to Bob Harley for information on audio matters would also seem to indicate that you're willing to take seriously the bizarre concepts of "high end" audio which he frequently supports despite the lack of any factual basis.

No, it isn't necessary for everyone to continuously reinvent the wheel and personally try these strange products before labeling them as ridiculously expensive scams. Properly controlled double blind listening tests have failed to validate the claims of those marketing magic power cords, cables, players, amplifiers, etc. to the gullible.

Exactly, JohnK. I didn't have to try cocaine, heroin, speed, etc. before labeling them as unworthy of use.

$225 for a power cord? really? really? why is it that the more expensive electronic products get the uglier they look? if i'm paying $225 for a power cord it better be purdy!...$225? really? i'll stick to my cheapo $40 power bar that lets me plug in 5 things at a time!!
i must say though, the IONOCLAST sounds like a super product, stop me from playing my terrible sounding staticky CD's...tell you that homeless man i saw on the street the other day would love that power cord to keep his pants up.

I think I like this one the best:
http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/powerstratum.php

A 5 dollar powerstrip glued on top of some maple wood with brass feet for $700.

If anyone wants one of these I will fabricate it and sell it for half the cost! I'll even throw in a couple of free triads:

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/cablelifts.php

And I will close with a great quote:
"I got even more dramatic results dabbing our brand new silver contact lube on all my stereo system connections: the new punch in the bass, the new treble clarity startled even my demanding ears."


Wow, is this guy really lubing up his stereo equipment?

What a load of crap

Yeah, T, but their cable lifts are "designed by Marcia Bauman".

But it's their "biggest upgrade by far!" That means a power strip makes more difference than speakers, amps, or preamps. Wow. I should have spent my money on one of those and kept my Cambridge Soundworks!

$14 for three sticks and a rubber band? if only i had no conscience i could retire wealthy at 30 from having sold sticks and elastics.



now maybe it's just me but wouldn't having a dozen or so little tipi's on your carpet look silly and also cause possible injuries at 2 in the morn when you're going to the fridge?..wow

Hey guys, don't knock those cable lifts until you try them.

I tied 3 straws togethor with rubber bands to make my own DIY version, and you would not believe how much better my 12 AWG sounds now. Yes, you heard me right, my speaker wire sounds better now, even with no speakers hooked to them.

Even better, now my m80's sound waaaaaay better when hooked up. Since I have all this extra sound quality and additional clean power, I've gone back to Buywiring, unbelievable.

But best of all, it is easier to vacuum now since my speaker wire is raised off the floor by the straws, and I no longer get electro magnetic build up and static charge in the wire, which reduces the sound quality over time.

ps: just another DIY hint I'll pass on to you, however, I can't realease the website. If you rub tooth paste on your binding posts you will get much cleaner sound and the copper won't tarnish over time.

LOL!

They also claim that Putting your amps on maple makes them sound better...knock on wood.

Or, if you are really feeling spendy, you could pay $700 to get a power strip mounted on maple

Yuk! I just tried and it made the whole receiver sticky. From now on, that stuff goes on pancakes and that's all!

Yes, but if you read, you will note that it's not just any maple, it's 3 your old air dried old growth, 75 to 100 year old Maryland Maple. Because Maryland maple sounds clearly better than Canadian rock maple. And hand made by an Amish Craftsman to boot.

Sorry Home Depot, your wood's no good.

Paul

That poor guy, he's probably pulling his hair out ready these posts.

yes, pro wire!?????????buthow can electrik cable make pro--sounds?
i will go to electical store and make one to, and will report on my cheap and best electric cable!

reflect!

... from laughter.

I see now very clearly why he didn't want to share the company's name.

I never mean to offend anyone, but I do view this forum a place to learn and explore (and a source of entertainment at times) and share different ideas. I/we can only do that when all the information is given.

Paul

And what speaker owner couldn't pass up these beauties?

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/biwirejumpers.php

So the arrows are supposed to indicate a proper direction? Because as we all know, electricity travels better in one directons than the other.

That's what I've been doing wrong with my M80's. I have the Bi wire jumpers on "upside down".

This, and I truly maean this, has got to be my abso. fav. tweak ever. And it's not from Mapleshare, or not yet at least.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/isoclean3/fuses.html

They are not just upgraded, but directional. Make sure you pay close attantion when you install them. Get it wrong and...

Paul

....KABLAMMM!!!!

You guys are hillarious, must be Canadians. Pssst, the world is not flat and 2 channel music is like watching a black and white television hooked up to rabbit ears.

About Mapleshade. Yes, they make outrageous claims. But, you cannot knock their guarantee. Which is what prompted me to take a look see at one of their products. Here's a novel idea, Buy a cable, set up a blind test and report your findings here. I know this is more work than sitting here at the computer posting negative reviews about something you have never witnessed. By the way, I have been told that the guy that owns Mapleshade is the genius who developed and built the A10 jet.

For the guy who was asking about what ac source that I was using. I had the cable plugged into a montser filter. Don't remember the model # but one of the larger ones.

My next major purchase is going to be a power regenerator. This device takes AC, turns it into pure DC, then converts it back into steady AC. Power is a killer on TV's and the sound quality
of your system.

Ho Ho Ho...gotta love them Ho's

They're the one making the claims. Why should I spend my money to prove something I already know is false?

It's simple logic here. You don't control the "cleanliness" of the power from the generator to your fusebox--maybe not even until the wall outlet. How is 6 feet going to make a difference? Especially 6 feet of nothing but wire--no surge suppression, power conditioning, anything. Wire. Puh-leeze.

As for your testing, did you do this? "I'm going to switch the cable now." pause, don't switch the cable, press play.

In addition, audio memory is incredibly short. How I know this? Way back when when Peter, Adam, and I were comparing M50s and M22s, which do sound pretty different, I walked out of the room for maybe 2 minutes. When I walked back in, I said, "Oh, you've switched back to the M22s?" Nope, it was the M50s. Despite the M22s wider soundstage and lesser bass, after less than 2 minutes, I couldn't remember the difference between them and the M50s.

Yes, what you say makes sense. With that logic all steaks are the same, since they do come from a cow. Next time I eat a steak at the greasy spoon cafe I will console myself by saying this steak is just as good as the ones at Ruths Cris for 3x the price.

By the way we love you canadians.

No, that's not at all analogous, and I'd say you know it. Steaks vary a whole lot based on the cut, the animal itself, what it is fed, how it is cooked, etc.

Electricity coming out of your wall sockets (no matter what condition it is, how it is generated, what the voltage is) is not going to be changed by a cable--unless that cable is of too low a gauge and offers resistance.

Now if you were talking about changing out the power supply in your electronics, I might give it some credence--it's well known that crummy power supplies can wreak all kinds of havoc.

If power cords could make a difference in how electronics work (in other words, reduce errors, because that's what we're talking about here), I guarantee you that IT managers would be replacing their server power cables with $300 cables as well. Guess what? We're not.

And I'm not Canadian, either.

my guess is that "Tesla" shows up somewhere in the product name.

I am being nice here, so don't take this the wrong way, but AFI's (that would be the American Film Institute) named Citizan Kane the No. 1 movie of all time. And guess what, It's in black and white.

I enjoy 2 channel audio because I, like most of the people on this planet, and that includes Canadians and Americans, have TWO ears!

I also hear rabbit ears are one of the best ways to get HD signal.

You are correct though, if Mapleshare is going to refund you the total cost plus shipping, maybe I should try a non Home Depot air dried Amish maple board for my DVD player.

Paul

http://futuremusic.com/blog/?p=2005

That looks VERY interesting.

Steaks vary a whole lot on the cut, the animal itself..etc but wire doesn't? Hmmm ok

Question for you. How come all the top recording studios, the ones that cater to audiophile type recordings all have high end wiring. I have heard that in Sony's new high end recording studio nearly all the wires are made out of 100% silver, that all wiring has a foot of separation and is of the highest quality.

Like I said, order one and try it. You have absolutely nothing to lose except maybe your steadfast beliefs. I didn't think I would hear any difference and I did. That is why I made the original post.

Anyways..thanks for the responses.

30 day guarantee...what do you have to lose?

Ignorance is bliss.

(excluding shipping) provided we receive the item undamaged. Please make sure your returns are unmarred and very thoroughly wrapped.

That's a nice out.

Another thing: there is no way to account for audio memory with most of these products--they all take time to switch out. Power cord. Jumpers. Stands.

Not to mention those jumpers. 30 day money back guarantee only applies if they are "unmarred" and "undamaged". As far as I can tell, you have to damage them in order to install them. Nice.

that would be pretty robust considering most audio interfaces have their inputs about 1" apart. They would have to incorporate single channel audio interfaces into a computer for each channel and then take that recording and import it into a single master sequencing computer.

I suppose they could wire the system so that all wires are in close proximity for about 2" of their length.

Of course, I have no knowledge of this system and am only speculating.

OMG $7250 for speaker wire?

Sign me up for an Axiom A1400-8, Integra 9.8, and Ep500, oh hell lets get 2 EP500's. and some 12 guage wire from the local hardware store.

That is just nuts!

if you can afford that list, you can afford $750 speaker wire

If you shop at the said shop, please shop here:

http://www.bestpricecameras.com/welcome.asp


I'M KIDDING...these people will rip you off!!! Do not even go here (the link above), they are known to sell your credit card info and you will soon find charges on your card originiating from places like Singapore.

That is true, but I think I would rather spend the $750 on something else, like DVD's or a couple of really cool air dried non Home Depot Amish maple boards from Mapleshare, or I even hear you can get some directional fuses that make all the difference.

LOL

Paul

Care to site a source for that? Doing a quick google, I couldn't find anything.

Damn, that's got to be one huge building to put 1 foot of separation between every single cable. Hope they have thick walls, too...

Don't forget the snake oil...

jKP THIS is tru wolrd audio tech talk,,,not funny wait to see my cord it will be for audiopiles only.

hmmmm.

I wonder if bbigs and JKP are one and the same?

When I was a teenager I used to work/volunteer at a decent music recording studio; the studio owner's kid was my HSchool best friend.
One day, the engineer was explaining to me that the 8 inches patch cables used on the mixing console patch were actually solid gold. I was pretty impressed, and then I ask him, I guess that the main mic's cable should be pretty expensive too, huh? -- he said -- nah, it's just regular mic cable, probl. 19.99. hehehe.

Free your mind and your arse will follow.

I will be back after the new year to let you know about the quantum gadget though. You guys just might be missing out on another good tip from JKP.

Truthfully, I enjoy my system too much to not want to improve on the sound. I listen to my SACD's almost every night for about an hour or so before going to bed. I know my music and I can tell if an improvement has been made.

Beer budget champagne tastes...some day those Wilson Grand Slams will be mine.

Think of how much quicker they'd come if you spent less money on hocus pocus sound quality tweaks.

guys, why all the vitriol? I mean if the original poster did include the URL, everyone would have jumped him too. He did qualify his post by saying he tried - however unscientific - doing a blind study. I mean one could make an argument that if you substituted the word Axiom in the above posts/urls, it's what you might see/hear on other sites. "it can't sound that good, it's too cheap, what do you know about high end audio..." etc. etc.

Even if it's complete bunk, no harm done. It's not as if he was trying hawk the stuff. He didn't try come off sounding as an authority on power, AC/DC conversion etc. Refer back to the title of the thread.

I think the OP brought this on themselves by calling the thread 'hocus pocus'

Correction: You don't enjoy it enough to be satisfied with it as is.

OUCH! Brutal, but profound.

After seeing the OP, I just had to read this thread in its entirety for the entertainment value. It was tough to pick, but my favorite:


By whom? I remember being told repeatedly and emphatically that there were WMD in Iraq...

I tracked that down--he is, at least according to a newspaper article linked from the site.

Rumor has it he named the jet after his mother-in-law.

That is hilarious!

For those that don't know, the A10 is called either the Thunderbolt or Warthog or just plain Hog.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-10_Thunderbolt_II

I wonder which he was refering to in the case of his mother in law?

The speed and power of her tongue?

Wasn't it also called "the flying can opener" because of its effectiveness against tanks?

I don't supose you guys think you might be taking this blanket party a little far do you?

Yes, it went too far a long time ago.

Really didn't get good until somebody said something about the A10 Warthog ... one of my all time favorite military flying machines, right behind the Douglas A-1 Skyraider. Did y'all know that the single engine A-1 carried a heavier bomb load than that of the four engine WWII Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress and was about as tough as one plane could ever be.

Oh wait, this is the Axiom *audiophile* site, never mind...carry on.

Why don't precise scientific instruments use $1000 cables?

Because scientists are concerned with data, repeatability, and other such nonsense.