Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners Receiver help--Onkyo or Denon

With my tax return coming I'm seriously thinking of getting a new receiver--I need something with HDMI connectivity. I've narrowed it down to two choices--Denon 2808CI and the Onkyo SR875. Right now, they are roughly the same price at Onecall.

I've kinda had my heart set on a Denon mainly because of the nice reviews here. The new GUI looks very appealing to me.

One of the things that draws me to the Onkyo is it's HQV (high quality video) processing, but I'm not sure if it's something I need. Is the HQV mainly for upconverting the signal? From what I've read it sounds like the Onkyo will upconvert any incoming signal and output to 1080p.

My plan is to hook up the following via HDMI--Toshiba XA2, Xbox 360, and a PS3. I also have a DirecTV HD box, but it's not that important for me to incorporate it into my HT set up. Pretty much all those sources will be feeding a 1080p signal into the receiver. I'm not quite sure what the Denon or Onkyo will do with those--do they pass the video signal straight through to the TV while handling the audio portion? Or, does it do any kind of processing to the video before sending it on?

Besides the extra inputs the Onkyo has, the video processing and slightly more flexible bass management options are the two main selling points over the Denon. I just don't know how much benefit, if any, I'll get from the HQV portion.

Power's not really an issue as I use an external amp to power my front speakers. I know the 3808CI is probably closer to the Onkyo SR875, but I can't swing the extra cost at this point.

Hmm, decisions decisions. . .

If anyone has input I'd greatly appreciate it!

I have never used an onkyo but I do own the denon 3808.

The 3808 has an option to turn off video scaling, not sure about the 2808.

MY vote is for the denon.

Several of us got the 3808 for $1098 shipped from JR.com. They were quoting the 2808 for $850 I think.

I would give them a call and see if they still have these low prices on the denons.

Jr.com is also an authorized denon dealer so you would still have the factory warranty.

Also, there is someone else who is selling the 3808 really cheap. I forget who, but the company was mentioned on the "official 3808 owners thread" over at AVS.

Hi St Pat guy,

I know you use an outboard amplifier but I'd still say go with the Denon--better reliability than Onkyo, which have had quality control issues on and off for some years.

As to the video processing in the AV receiver, your video display is still going to perform its own processing to its own specific native resolution and pixel array, no matter what the input signal, so I tend to think the HQV in the Onkyo is unnecessary.

Regards,

Alan

Mark,

I have the 2808, and I am enjoying it very much. One thing, unless I am doing something very wrong the 2808 has the old GUI. I think the new one is only on the 3808 and up.

I would suggest reading up on the audio sync issues the new Onkyo receivers are having. This includes 805, 875, and 905 with no solution. My advice would be to wait for next years Onkyo model or go with the Denon.

Bill3508

I'm seduced by the ability of the 3808 to connect to the network and stream audio natively. And mdrew loves the GUI.

Thanks for the info guys! Hmm, I may have to look into the 3808CI--might as well save up and not settle for something else.

Alan, what good does HQV processing do? Is it mainly for taking, say an S-Video input, and converting to 1080p?

terzaghi, I'll definitely check out Jr.com--hopefully they still have good prices on the 3808. I've ordered from them before--I think that's where I got my HK 7200.

framer, I'm honored you called me Mark, but my name's Sean. Mark may be insulted, though! Thanks for the heads up about the GUI. Yes, it does look like the new GUI is for the 3808 and up only.

Bill, yesterday I found a thread on AVS that tries to deal with the audio sync issues. I didn't get into the nuts and bolts of it.

Looks like the Denon is looking better and better. I will go back and reference Mdrew's thread on it.

I've been following it and its a shame that Onkyo is putting out products like that and acknowledging the problem but doing nothing about it. If they don't do better with their next line I will probably be switching to something else.

Bill3508

I know that jr.com showed the MSRP prices for the denon, but when I called them the prices were way lower.

The deal was suppose to end a couple of times and they kept extending it... Maybe you'll get lucky and they still have the deal going.

Dakmart has the refurb 3808CI for about that price, too, FWIW.

A friend of mine has the Onkyo 875. I recently spent some time working on it with him. It's got a very nice interface, and certainly powerful amps, but the pre-outs don't work properly. Sometimes you get volume control, sometimes you get full signal straight to the amp! That's a tad hair raising in a 15x15 room (guesstimate, probably totally off) when you're dealing with an Emotiva MPS-1.

I haven't had any problems with my 805 so far with anything (and I would notice with a A1400! ).

On the video side, it is a just an HDMI pass-trough (unlike the 875 and the 905) so I am not sure that "video sync" is applicable.

EDIT: Sorry, I hit the send button before completing.

I didn't see any problems with HDMI, other than the arcane interface on the Denon 2910 which made playing SACDs difficult. But as I've said before, I'm not nearly as sensitive to audio/video issues as other people 'round these parts.

I called Jr.com and they have the 3808 for 1299.

Ken, that preout problem with the Onkyo sounds bad. That kinda scares me.

It's as if the volume control suddenly doesn't work. He's (obviously) had the problem happen more than I saw it happen, but it happened once when I was first working on the thing. Decidedly unpleasant.

I have the 705 in my upstairs system and never had any problems with the volume control but of course I use the internal amps so....

I do notice the lip sync issues and have had to do some playing around with the delay to try to fix it.

Oh great, I have a brand new Onkyo SR805 sitting in my living room...I havent hooked it up yet as I'm waiting on my home theater centers extension shelf to arrive...what kind of problems am I going to have with it???

I ended up returning my Onkyo SR805 (about 3 weeks ago). The Onkyos have a well known issue with audio/video syncing. Some people don't notice, but once you know about the problem, it might be hard to ignore. You are always looking for it. I also had a serious problem with Audessy set-up. After I used it, a volume limiter would kick in. It was really bad with my HD-cable for some reason. I honestly could not turn the volume loud enough (and my room is not very big). If I turned the Audessy off though, the volume problem went away. I was really bummed too since the receiver sounded really, really sweet!

I now have a Marantz 7002 which has been rock solid and sounds incredible, especially at louder volumes. The Onkyo did sound better at lower volumes, but heck, I could really only get lower volumes.

Hard to believe you are still chewing on this and haven't ordered the Denon yet!!!

You might find the ability to stretch your $$$ with a refurb unit from ecost.

get over to AVS and check out the 3808 thread. you can still get one for $1098 from an authorized online retailer by calling the sales guy direct. i think its steve from electronic expo. read the thread and you will find many happy customers of his. later.

Sean, the major advantage of the 875 would be the Reon video processor(although there are other features, such as more HDMI inputs), which is generally considered to do better scaling of non-HD material(e.g. standard DVDs, standard def TV)than the scaler in almost any current TV display. So, the old question about what does the better scaling in a particular case, the TV itself or a separate scaler in a receiver or elsewhere would almost always be answered here in favor of the Reon. Now, whether it would be enough better than what your TV itself does to justify the significant added cost is your judgment call.

If you decide not to go with the Reon processor, there doesn't appear to be a compelling reason to spend anywhere near what you're considering. It would be more cost-effective to go with the 705 instead, which has the other features and which is available as a factory refurb now from Accessories4less for about $530 plus shipping.

Thanks John and everyone else for your input. Looks like there are deals to be had for all these receivers on-line if you dig a little.

Now, as long as the technology doesn't drastically change in the next few years I should be good. . .

It will, long live two channel

Rick, I hear you. It pains me that I don't have a separate two-channel system anymore. The purist in me will never die.

WTF?!?! I missed that. What did you do?

I have had my SR875 for 2 months now and no problems with audio sync.The Reon processor is the main reason I bought it,I returned my H/K 745 and Pioneer Vsx92thx because the faroudja processing IMO was so bad you would rather not watch it.The onky with the Reon processor does a very good job at upscaling sd video signals.It only upscales analog video signals and not HDMI.HDMI video will pass through,component and S video will be upscaled.

Went from an apartment to renting a room in a house. Now I run a two-channel/HT system. My tube preamp has an HT bypass, so it still works out okay.

I don't think I'll have any sd signals to upscale. Pretty much everything will be HDMI. So, the Reon processor will be not be used. I don't know why that didn't make sense to me earlier.

I definitely learned that you can get a much better price by calling! You can probably get the $1098 price for the Denon (including shipping) from 6ave.com. They are an authorized dealer, and I have bought from them before. I know a lot of people over at the AVS forum took advantage of that deal.

Might need it for a while in Canada.....EH

Don't you have any DVDs or ever watch SDTV, Sean?

Yes! I found that thread and dug through it to find good info. Thanks.

Plenty of DVDs and not much SDTV. I use a Toshiba XA2 and am pretty happy with the upscaler on it. Except for the occasional baseball game only in SD, everything is pretty much HDTV--I'm not a big TV watcher and what I do watch (History, Discovery, TLC, etc) I get in HD.

Yes, the XA2 has essentially the same Reon processor for upscaling DVDs, and while it can't process TV signals, of course, you appear to have very little need for that. So, the extra cost for another Reon in the 875 wouldn't be justified.

Well, we can scratch that one off the list. Thanks, John!

I bought my 3808 for $1280 up here! I should think you can do better than that down there, somewhere.

The Onkyo’s just have too many issues for me to consider them. I looked at them real close and they do have some very nice features (on paper anyway), but the amount of user problems persuaded me to look elsewhere. I am enjoying the 3808 and recommend it without reservations. It is the first AVR I’ve owned that has not given my ANY problems. The dam thing just works. The GUI is a wonder to behold and this silly thing has more options and features that I find every day, that I just don’t know what all it will do. The manual sucks, as with all Denons.

As I am prone to upgrading things from time to time, I will be buying something different, most likely fourth quarter. Whatever I buy will have to out do the 3808 and that will be a difficult task. The only thing I’m seriously considering right now is the S/N 972. The 972 looks as if it will dethrone the 3808. S/N is also coming out with a Pre/Pro that will have the same functionality as the 972, but more, without amps.

Reon is overrated. I wouldn’t worry about the Denon not having it. You will be hard pressed to tell a difference in SD video up conversion between the 875 and 3808. HD/BR is almost impossible to improve upon, so that’s not a concern.

THX Ultra II would be nice to have, but not necessary.

If you are really interested in getting top notch SD up-conversion, buy the Denon 5308CI with the Realta.

I bought my 3808 from Sixth Ave too.

oh crap. I bought mine from 6ave too. I don't know why I was thinking I bought it from jr.com.

I think you are the third person I have told that to.

That's alot of extra coin for the 5308 just for the Realta chip. The one and only time I have run the 3808 as the main upconverter it looked very good on the 40" 1080P Samsung LCD.

From all the reading I've done on the 875, definitely stay away. It works GREAT for some users, but there is a problem specifically with the setup you have (the DirecTV HD-DVR). Multiple users have reported that every time you pause, FF, RW, etc. a broadcast running Dolby Digital, you get a 5-10 second audio drop out (every time!).

I was set on the Onkyo for the same reasons (video upscaling), until I read all about the problems with the DirecTV box... Since then I'm totally sold on the 3808ci (thanks to some pointers from the folks on these boards). The Ethernet connection and awesome GUI were more than enough to impress compared to imagining trying to explain to my wife why my new $1000 Onkyo receiver causes the volume to mute every time you do anything with the DirecTV box!

Yes, I agree. Unless someone already has a few grand invested in an external VP (like me), the step up in price comes at a premium. But, the Realta is the best chip on the market. Depending on just how much user configuration will be allowed, I just might pick up the 5308 and get rid of my VP. My longing for an external amp will wane as well.

I went through the exact same thing "Denon 2808CI or Onkyo SR875. Also keep in mind that I was upgrading from an older Denon model. After all the research they both have all the features and many more that you would need in almost any application. However if you look closer at the video portion IMOP the Onkyo comes out on top. I was unsure of the power output that Onkyo claimes to have per channel. And of course all us Denon owners know that what Denon states is always right on! I was stuck but do to the fact of the better video quality (HQV) I went with the Onkyo. I could not be happier. The 1080p upscaling is awesome. I have an older DVD player hooked up and it is amazing what the HQV can do to just a regular DVD. The HD-blu-ray is very impressive. Now not owning the Denon I cant say how well the upscaling is but if you are in doubt of the performace of the Onkyo I can personnaly tell you that it has performed well over my expectations. The setup on the 7.1 is also very cool. You just put the mic in your listening postions and run the built in program and your done. Of course you will want to do some minor tweeks but it gets you going in the right direction.

Hope this helps in you decision.

Thanks for your input, wicsteel. It really is a tough choice. I really don't think I need the video processing of the Onkyo, and I'm kinda leaning towards the Denon. Still pondering my choices though.

The two things that really dissuade me from the Onkyos at this point are the lip sync and heat issues. I had an old Sony DVD player that had issues with the lip sync and it drove me nuts.

Sean, maybe you've been reading too much from those who've had "issues" instead of those who've been delighted and had no problems. In any case, on the lip-sync matter with some combinations of equipment, it appears(see topic 2) in the 705 owner FAQ ) to be correctible with the sync adjustment and/or the speaker distance settings in cases where it does develop.

John, you're right--sometimes it's only the bad press that gets all the exposure. And, yes, I ran across that thread when I started researching the Onkyos.

Now, if I can just get Zoe to stop bugging me about turntables and can redirect my attention toward receivers again!


(Zoe, I'm just kidding.)

Well, on that matter, although it's rather remarkable that such a grungy technology(compared to CD technology)managed to serve us even as well as it did for so long, it's long been obsolescent and no way can I re-develop an interest in LPs.

So John does this mean tubes are out of the question

Yeah, I guess so Rick, although they've been out of it even longer.