Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Stereo The perfect speaker? Mini-M80?

Hey everyone. I've been lurking on these forums for the past month, trying to decide what speakers to buy when the time comes (sometime this year) but it's been terribly difficult. I'm planning to start with just a two speaker system for now, but I can't even decide on what to get for that! Here's what I've been hearing:

M22: Great sound, but not much bass compared to other models. The need to buy a sub woofer suggests to me that I should consider the floor standers instead.

M60: Again, great sound, but fairly bass heavily at low volumes. Since most of my listening will be low to mid, and since I'm the kind of person to turn the treble up on my stereo rather than the bass, I think maybe this model isn't right for me, even though it's more well rounded than the M22.

M80: Of course, everyone sings the praises of this model, but I just don't have the resources to spend on both it AND a 4-ohm rated receiver to run it. This is my first system, and that's just too much right now.

Nut otherwise the M80 sounds like a perfectly balanced speaker which I attribute to it's floor standing cabinet and array of tweeters and woofers. Two tweeters, two 5.25s, and two 6.5s....


I've got a mid-sized living room, and I'm looking at 100-watt receivers (specifically the Onkyo 606), so I don't even NEED something as powerful as the M80, but I've love to have it's balanced, rich sound. Now I'm by no means an audio expert, but why doesn't axiom have a model with one of each of the above. One tweeter, one 5.25" woofer, and one 6.5" woofer. The balance of the M80 in a smaller, more affordable package.

This speaker could be an M23, a combination of the M2 and M3 -- like an M22 but with a larger body. It could be the revival of the M40.... either way, it seems like the perfect speaker for me may not exist yet.

Is there some reason such a speaker won't work? Because that's the only explanation I can think of as to why it's not part of axiom's great line-up.

What do you guys think? Am I nuts?

I think that perhaps if you went with the M22 and a sub you would be quite happy with that setup. For years I had used my M80 in a stereo setup and had been content with their bass capabilities but once I added in a subwoofer to the mix It was very clear that I did not want to go back. I believe you would be happier with this setup vs getting the M60 for example.

It's been discussed a fair amount before (along with an M22 in a tower enclosure). One assumes they've tried it; from what I know they've tried a number of things and discarded them. It sounds like you would enjoy an M22 and sub combo.

Ben, welcome. In my view the perfect Axiom speaker already exists, and that's the M22 sound that I've enjoyed for over 6 years now with lowest bass being reinforced by a sub on some material. The M22s, even without the sub operating, have good bass down to about 50Hz with room reinforcement, which is adequate for most music. With a good sub such as the EP500 the lowest octave is covered well for pipe organ and some movie LFE. Adding a 6 1/2" driver instead of the second 5 1/4" wouldn't necessarily make a significant difference; many factors besides simply the size of the driver are involved.

After reading your Axiom Speaker synopsis, the M60's are the logical choice.
No "special amplification" needs, (as is the case for the 4 ohm M80's) and no need for a Sub-Woofer (unless you want one used in conjunction with a home theater in the future).
You can save $$$$$$$$ and enjoy great sound.....now!

I'd have to echo JohnK. having just incorporated a quality sub into my system, in music and movies, it just sounds like great speakers, I don't notice where the M22 drops off and my LFM-1 picks up. It's just beautiful Music. I don't think you have to compromise at all by having the M22 if you're willing to add a decent sub into the mix.

Nope, you're not nuts.

I do, however, disagree with your 'ballanced' point of view.

From your description of what you prefer, I suspect what you are saying is that you don't like the bass heavy and/or over acccentuated mids that many do. In that regard, all of Axioms offerings are quite ballanced (flat frequency response).

I think you would be happy with the sound of any of the speakers you are considering.

While it is true that the M80 goes lower, if you are adding a sub later, that lower extension is also delivered by the sub.

What the M80 delivers is more detail across the range. I particularly noticed it with the kickdrum (mid/upper bass)and cymbals. Now, having written that, unless you were to do a direct a/b comparison where you could switch back and forth at will, I think it would be hard to describe the difference.

HOWEVER, if you really want the M80s, consider another alternative. I am not ready for Bluray yet, so I decided to pick up an older model 100wpc Sherwood Newcastle receiver for around $75. It has plenty of power to drive the M80s, center and surrounds. This lets me enjoy my M80s now while I wait for bluray to become more mainstream and for receivers with the features I want and the power to drive the M80s to come down in price to something I can afford.

Since you are starting out with two channel, this seems like a very reasonable option.

Last, but not least, I would suggest that you stop reading and do a bit of listening. See if you can find someone local who will audition some of Axioms offerings for you. Another option is to find a local Paradigm dealer. The studio line seems to be sonicly similar to Axioms offerings at a higher price. Give a listen to the studio 40, 60 and 100. It will give you a rough idea of the differences between the M22, 60 and 80.

I suspect that a little listening will remove a lot of the confusion for you.

Good luck and keep us posted.

LT61. I don't recognize your muppet avatar. Which episode did it appear in?

I'm confused eK-XL, have you actually listened to the M22's and M60's or are you basing those opinions on posts here?

I wouldn't call the M60s bass heavy at low volumes at all.

I'd love to listen to axiom's products... but I don't really feel comfortable invading someone's home for a listen -- and anyway, most people don't have axiom's entire line setup for my listening pleasure.

Maybe someday I'll be able to visit Axiom -- they're about 13 hours away from me, but until then that's all I have to go on...

Also, a cheaper receiver isn't an option for me, as I already have a blu-ray player (PS3) as well as HD-cable, a 360, and a Wii. With probably more to come... I need all the inputs I can get!

What might make you feel better about "invading someone's home" is knowing that they will get a gift cert from Axiom if you end up buying the speakers. Most people don't really see that as an imposition.

Like John said, other factors play into the bass levels of a speaker; namely cabinet volume. I think you should give the M60s (or maybe the M50s if you're looking for something a little more laid back) a shot.

Let's not forget the M80s can be driven by a fair number of receivers out there, whether they are rated for 4ohm or not. Another option would be to use an older receiver and a video switcher as most receivers have lots of audio hookup, just lack the multitude of video.

I for one enjoy meeting people through auditions and it gives me a chance to let the system shine. I really recommend the audition route.

If you are ever in Calgary drop by, I have a fair number of the Axiom line up. M80s, M22s, QS8s, VP100 and the VP150.

How many does your TV have? My Samsung sports more than I'll ever use -- component, HDMI, even FireWire!

I own a pair of M60s, so take what you read next with a grain of salt.

I don't find them bass heavy, at any volume. Even if I did, I could always trim the bass response using the EQ on my receiver.

That said, if the goal is to put together a top notch home theater over time, then the M60s are a really great place to start. Here's why: You can buy them now without the need to pick up a sub. The M60s bass extension is quite good. In fact, I often listen to my M60s on "pure direct" (no digital effects or in receiver cross-over muddling) and find the bass punchy and direct - no muddines - and the treble to sparkle quite nicely.

Then, later, you can pick up your sub, your center and your surrounds as funds become available.

If, on the other hand, you think you'll be content with the M22s (and perhaps want to save a little money in the long run on the whole HT), then pick up a set of M22s. Augment them with a sub (or not) as your budget dictates. Many on the boards have found (and this sentiment is echoed above) that the M22 + subwoofer is a pair that is hard to beat.

Remember, there's the risk free in home trial to fall back on. I have complete confidence that you'll be satisfied any route you choose.

EK, not sure why you think the 60's are bass heavy? This is not the case, besides, the 80's are the same if not a little more in that category. The 60's and 80's are very close in performance.

There are a couple of major fallacies in this discussion.

First, that reading other people's opinions about how speakers sound will correlate closely with your experience in your room.

Second, that dissecting the driver compliment and rearranging components is something Axiom hasn't thought of, or that it would necessarily result in a sound extrapolated by user experience.

Axiom is an R&D company. I don't think it is reasonable to suggest that Ian and Co. somehow continually overlook some magic combination that would sound better than the current offerings.

That being said, I started with M60's and remain completely happy with them, even without a sub for lots of music. I added a sub, and it made a huge difference for HT, and a meaningful difference for some music. JohnK's observation about useful bass from the M22's is astute as usual.

I started with the M22+sub model and LOVED it. I then heard the M60's and was wowed again. The M60's had the same signature sound as the M22s, but just more of it. (I don't mean volume alone). I don't think you'd go wrong with the M60's at all.

Second note...I LOVE having people over to demo my gear, as it's one of the only times I really get to give my undivided attention it deserves. I've often had people over for a hour or two listening to all sorts of cds, and dvds. It's a blast. It's also a great way to hear new music, as most guest bring a selection of their favs with them!

That is exactly what I found. When playing with my receiver to figure it out, I was switching back and forth between 2 channel and PLII and in most cased noticed no difference between just the M80s and M80+ sub.

The differences showed up for music with stuff that had either keyboards with deep bass, or pipe organ.

I also agree with your comment about other peoples opinions. Go forth and audition!

You won't be invading someone's home as people request to be put on the audition list and get compensated by Axiom if the audition leads to a sale (and is kept past the 30 days).

Also own m60s and I would also question any view that they are bass heavy at any volume. They have very good bass extension but the mids and highs are equally apparent.

If you take a look at the frequency charts Axiom provides, I think you will see they differ very little from the M80s in that they throw an impressively flat curve and are balanced all round.

In the end, buy what makes you feel good but audition if you can. If they have already signed up in the audition list, then I think they would enjoy accommodating you for a listen.

Murph's just bitter because nobody ever comes to audition at his house.

Hey, if I wasn't 3700 miles away, I'd be stopping by to annoy you all the damn time.

M60's are neutral, not bass-heavy. In my room, anyway.

So, Murph, you stopping by my house for a beer after work tonight?

Be glad too.

For a pint of Guinness, I'll leave work right now and go home to try and finish up that teleportation device I've been working on.

I have several truly spectacular stouts in the fridge, but no Guinness. Pity.

Now, if you had some ice cold Barq's I'd slip out for a trip south.

I'm sure axiom has thought of this -- but there could be a number of reasons why they haven't made one. Maybe they think a speaker as tall as an M22 but with as big of a footprint as an M3 isn't a desirable speaker size.

Maybe it sounds as good as an M80 (but not as loud) and they don't want to lose M80 sales. They'd be competing against themselves then.

Who knows...

Anyway, I may try to contact people on the list in my area, but I'm not sure yet. I'm fairly shy, and my girlfriend is VERY shy (and not much into this speaker business).

In fact, she thinks I'm crazy for looking at such expensive speakers... she wants me to buy a home theatre in a box

Watch your language

Buy some Axioms and put them all into one big box with a new DVD player and avr and then tell her it is a HTIB, the best one on the market.

Jason is verrrrrrrry wise!

Show her This Page and explain that you've done careful research to find speakers with exceptional bang/buck, ones that save money by forgoing agents just like Geico and AMICA.

Then walk her to her shoe collection and ask her how much they cost