Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Blu-ray is dead - heckuva job, Sony!

Interesting article , any thoughts?

Even people here were calling all of the HD disc formats a failure before the "war" was over. With video streaming and access via the internet, more and more people are choosing the cheaper DVD route and those methods.

We are, a year after HD-DVD did it, just starting to see sub-$200 Blu-Ray players, but the movies are $25-$30 where HD-DVD was $5-$10 less than that, and regular DVDs can be had for $16 when they are released.

Sony is trying to make back its money, in my opinion, from the battle, and from all of the PS3 sales, via licensing fees for the players and movies, and those costs are keeping even some of the more dedicated folks away.

They just need to make the movies themselves more affordable. I mean, one can get two to three regular DVDs for the price of one Blu-ray. That's been the most frustrating part of this new format. I've been slowly trying to build my Blu-ray collection and have waited for sales and deals on the newer discs. It's a hard pill to swallow when I want to replace a regular DVD with a Blu-ray and need to spend $30 to do so.

Like Nick said, they can come down all they want on the price of the players, but the root of the problem is the discs.

I'll pile on. Yeah, the disc prices are horrible. Even for someone like me who seems to enjoy throwing money around like he's the yin to JohnK's yang, it's hard to justify a lot of the time.

Yeah, they really need to get Blu-ray on the fast track if they want to supplant DVD. It's hard to see how they're going to do that at this point.

OK, I'll pile on CVs piling on. I picked up my 52" display with the intention of going HD, but I find that upscaled DVD looks pretty good to me. I can see how it would make a difference on a much bigger screen, but for me at this point, it doesn't really matter.

It does make a difference on a 126" projection screen. I supported HD-DVD so as not to support a monopoly, and still have not bought a Blu-Ray player...

After I get a new HDTV I won't be rushing to purchase a Blu-ray player, I'll just pick up an Oppo upscaling DVD player.

I've heard the same from all big screen owners. You're spreading those pixels over a lot more realestate than I am.

I picked up a windows medea format HD video because I wanted to experience the wow now. The image difference is noticable, but not really WOW different on my 52".

Wheels, I am wondering if I should invest in a better scaling solution. I'm in no hurry so I will wait and see if Bluray picks up or not. I am truely format neutral at this point.

Funny, if Bluray fizzles, Toshiba may yet have the last laugh with their upgraded DVD format.

I certainly hope it doesn't fizzle out. DVD was a good format, but the difference Blu-ray makes is something I wouldn't want to give up. I haven't seen scaling that is any kind of substitute.

Here's a rebuttal to the article linked to at the beginning of the thread:

The Digital Bits - Archived post 10/30/08

I don't know, I have a problem with his logic. He says Robin Harris is no videophile because he's been "selling and marketing data storage for over 20 years." What? That's like saying I've been playing golf for the past 15 years and am therefore not qualified to give an opinion on anything else outside of the sport. This is a lame rhetorical technique to discredit someone else.

Regardless of the argument on either side, this just rubs me the wrong way.


Uh oh. I'm having a grumpy moment.

Good point. It's a weak statement. However, prematurely declaring Blu-ray a niche format is just as irresponsible.

True. I didn't mean for my rant to say which author is right or wrong. That dude's article just really rubbed me the wrong way.

*deep breath*

Okay, back to my mild-mannered self again.


*whew*

We had a month a while ago with Netflix where everything we got was HD-DVD format and it didn't change my monthly fee, so if one goes that route, it is the same price.

Scott

Netflix hit me with the extra dollar per month fee recently. Still, I can't really complain about that. An extra twelve dollars per year ain't gonna kill me.

Ha ha, it's okay. Sometimes I argue just for the sake of arguing.

Meet me by the playground at three o'clock. *cracks knuckles*

I think the most I've paid for a Blu-ray title has been about $24.00 through Amazon, I'm more than willing to pay the extra few dollars for the quality picture, sound and extras.

I really can't see the difference between BR and normal DVD. I have a Samsung Series 6 52" and have a Samsung BD P1500 as well as a Pioneer DV-400V-S and they look the same to me.

Maybe my eyes are failing me but at least it saves me some money

Another article on Blu-ray.

$25 million to promote Blu-ray. What's New
By Henning Molbaek
FIRST ONLINE Nov 7, 2008

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Studios and main backers of Blu-ray have just purchased $25 million worth of advertising to give the format another push forward. The campaign will be called "Tru Blu."

"TV ads, which began running last Sunday, feature clips from films like Hancock, Pineapple Express, The Dark Knight, Hellboy II: The Golden Army, Wall-E and others, to illustrate the wide array of titles available thanks to cooperation from Lionsgate, Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment, Universal Studios Home Entertainment, Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment and Warner Home Video, along with consumer electronics brands Panasonic and Sony. The purchaser of the ads is the Digital Entertainment Group, a Los Angeles-based consortium that includes Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba and Microsoft to promote DVD technology." according to Brand Week.

The backers believe that lower player prices and continued effort to make awareness of the benefits of Blu-ray will ultimately win consumers over.

According to DisplaySearch, U.S. consumers are projected to buy about 2.4 million standalone Blu-ray players this year, which is about three times the number sold in 2007.

SHHHHH, don't let them know that, otherwise the prices will never come down.

I'll throw in a "me too" on BD disc prices.

I could justify $300-$500 on a well-featured, fast-transport Blu-Ray player if I'm convinced it'll be the next "standard" and offer me superior picture and sound. But I, personally, am not going to pay $24-$30 per disc. And as I'm not convinced Joe Consumer will either, I don't think the format will truly succeed the way they hoped without disc prices coming down. And, if I'm not convinced it will succeed, I'm not going to invest in the hardware or a bunch of overpriced discs. Oh, yeah... and replace my receiver, too.

Jeez, I sounded old there, didn't I?

Hey you Blu-Ray kids...Get Off My Lawn!

We had a guy in the neighbouthood who yelled at the kids too. One night we 'borrowed all the knomes and pink flamingos on the block and decorated his lawn for him.

Going from TV sound to a quality HT settup was a WOW moment. Going from a 19" computer monitor to a 50" screen was a WOW moment. HD on anything 50" or less just isn't.

Predicting that Blu is dead may be a little premature, but they sure have challenges to overcome not the least of which is their own blindness to the situation. This has a lot of parallels with the music industry, which still hasn't figured out that its not going to ever get back the total control of the industry it enjoyed up until tape decks came out.

I would be curious to know what percentage of displays sold are over 50"? Growth in that area may well determine if or how fast Blu grows.

Ahem. Joe the Consumer

You just made me spit out Joe the cup of coffee.

Yesh, you,re right. Joe the Consumer must be willing to pay a bit more for higher quality.

I'm not sure it's your eyes. The differences become more apparent (to me) at larger screen sizes. I have a 92" projection screen and the difference between Blu-Ray and SD DVD is immediately apparent. (i.e. the kind of thing that my wife notices, not just me) Whenever we watch an SD DVD, she complains right when it starts that it's not Blu-Ray.

I realize I represent a very small slice of the overall market, but I'll be buying/renting Blu-Rays for as long as they're available.

Jason

Ahem! That's "mature"

I'll chime in with my two cents...

First off...LOVE my PS3. It's one of the very best pieces of electronics equipment I've ever bought. With all the features it has it's price is a bargain. When people finally start realizing it's not just the latest iteration game console, they'll realize it's a bargain.

Secondly, Netflix changed the way I purchase movies. I rarely rented before, because it was such a pain in the arse. I'd invariably return my movies late and end up paying $12 for a rental. It sucked. So I just bought my dvd's on the cheap and owned them. After a couple viewings they'd paid for themselves. But then came Netflix. I can see pretty much any movie ever made, I don't have to drive to the store, I don't have to wait in ilne, and I don't have to mull over a store full of movies I don't want to see to find something. It's great! As a bonus, if the title is available on blu-ray, they'll send me that version at no extra charge.

So what's all this mean? It means I rarely purchase a movie anymore. It's got to be something special for me to actually purchase it to own. It's Netflix's "fault"...not the price of blu-ray discs.

That said, I can't wait to get my hands on the blu-ray releases of the classic Bond movies. If you've ever read my old thread(s) about "Lowry Digital Images", you'd be excited too. The entire Bond series was one of the last big jobs they did. These discs should look as though the films were shot yesterday.

With my recent Blu-Ray player purchase, err, I mean, with the Blu-Ray player that is sitting in my closet waiting for Christmas, I plan on buying a few Blu-Ray movies right off the bat, but then, I may fire up Netflix again. That was great when I used it for HD-DVD titles, and with Blu-Ray discs even more expensive, it may be a winner for me again. I don't watch nearly as many movies as I'd like to, so for the cost of 1 new Blu-Ray for $25, means quite a few rentals over 2 months with a couple of bucks left over (I'd quote pricing, but netflix.com is blocked at work)...

Now that's willpower!!!



Before Blu-ray, I just went to my neighborhood Blockbuster (4 blocks from home) to rent the movies I wanted to see. When I got into Blu-ray, my local blockbuster wasn't even carrying them so I signed up for the monthly mail thing ($18+ monthly). I can rent as many as I want per month, but no more than two out at any one time. Plus, 3 times per month I can exchange a mailed movie for one at my local store, no extra charge, and it doesn't count against the number of movies I have out.

My local Blockbuster started carrying Blu-ray about 6 or 7 months ago, but they had limited titles (about 1 full bay) and limited quantity of each title. But, lately that has expanded to 3 or 4 bays of blu-ray titles and multiple copies of the really interesting movies. So, if a movie comes out that I'm really interested in seeing (like WALL-E), as long as I have a mailed movie to exchange, I can run over to my local store and pick it up as soon as it's released. If I'm not that interested in a given title, I can just wait until it is mailed to me.

At first I was uncomfortable with the expense, but I usually rent at least 4 movies per month, and often considerably more, so I feel the deal is worth it. There must be a distribution center near me because I usually get the mailed movies in two days or less.

Distribution center location is key to some really good renting. I live right next to Des Moines, Iowa, which is where a NetFlix "hub" is. I think all but 1 movie I got from them in the past came from the hub meaning that I put in a request today, and if it is early enough, I have the rental tomorrow. When I send it back, it goes out one day, and it is "returned" the next. Now if I could just figure out which post office they use, I've heard that some post offices will take the rental and put it back into their box before their daily pickup meaning that it is the same day return...

Dang, you guys make netflix sound good. I am tempted to give zip.ca a try, but I don't watch that many movies in a month, maybe 2-4.

Netflix IS good. It would be hard to make it sound otherwise.

Ditto Netflix rules - if only I didn't watch so much TV, I'd get more out of it ...

Just start watching your TV shows via DVD.

Thats one reason I may try zip.ca. I got hooked on Battlestar Galactica, and there are probably a few other good shows out there I could get into, but I refuse to pay for the extra-superdelux-with-too-much-crap fees for cable here in Canada just to watch a couple of good shows.

Thanks for reminding me to add Battle Star Galactica to my Xmas wish list.

You mean "winter festival registry", right?

Fred, I was really tempted to give zip.ca a go too, after the last round of praise for Netflix around here. But a quick web search for comments about zip made me a little gun shy.

I'm willing to listen if someone has more input, one way or the other, about zip.

I thought that the local FS had a pretty good selection of $15-$20 BR movies yesterday when I was there. Lots of demos promoting BR too.

Speaking of Netflix, has anyone seen this? Netflix Player by Roku

No HD video or 5.1 sound yet, but when Netflix starts pushing those out, this box could come in pretty handy. I just started using the streaming options on Netflix. The first movie I watched was Constantine's Sword. The video quality was pretty good in full screen on my 17" laptop. (I liked the movie, too.)

No I am Christian, I meant Christmas wish list. I will let those that are not Christians, but partake in the festivities that are a part of Christmas, call it Winter Festival or holidays or whatever, if you want to be politically correct.

Well said and I totally agree with you Jay.

Hey, now if I can get my Blu-Ray player (which is sitting about 8 feet from me right now in its box) for Christmas, and get other presents as part of some "winter festival", I'm all for it. I can celebrate the real holiday, and the one for those heathens.

Oh jeebus, do we have to do this again?

I don't have a Netflix membership, but I almost joined just so I could get one of these gadgets. How convenient it would be to watch an unlimited amount of movies whenever you wanted! However, there are only about 12,000 streaming titles available so far. It seems like a lot, but how good is the selection? I went to Netflix to browse the streaming selections and it seemed confusing. It comes up with only a single page full of titles and I'm not sure how to search for others. Maybe I'm missing something. Anyway, it seems like a good idea. I think I'll wait until they grow their library first.

Getting back to Blu-ray...I don't think the format will die, but I think it will take a long time for the *average* consumer to convert. Given the choice (IMO), the average person isn't going to go out and buy a new DVD player just for the sake of better quality video and/or audio even if they already own an HDTV. Heck, to take advantage of the higher quality audio formats, one would have to upgrade their receiver as well. So, unless Blu-ray starts becoming industry standard, I believe most people will remain perfectly content with their DVDs. Of course, this is just my uninformed opinion.

You do know I was being satirical about the whole political correctness thing, right?

Peter, judging by the serious tone of all your other posts, one cannot come to the conclusion that you were being anything but serious here.





Now, pull my finger. . .

Oh, gawd!

Hurry!






(please)

No mistaking it. I was maybe a little grumpy about having to be at work instead of continuing the XO comparison. I now get to re-install the Ninjas and see what they offer in an off axis setting.

<pull>

My wife and I have watched quite a few movies streamed from Netflix onto a big projection screen and even there, the quality really is not bad. We do not use the Roku, we just hook a laptop up to the projector and it works great.

It's nothing like Blu-Ray, but it's pretty close to DVD quality video with very average stereo audio. It's a strong step in the right direction.

Jason

I just started using zip.ca a couple months ago and I'm more than happy, no complaints here. I had one instance where they sent me a scratched up DVD that wouldn't work properly but sent me out a replacement immediately after receiving the dud. I live in Peterborough, and I believe all of the DVDs I've received have come from Toronto (headquarters in Ottawa) with a turnover rate of a couple days.

I used Zip.ca shortly after they started up and had no problems what so ever, other than I couldn't find the time to watch all the movies as they came in.

I usually rip everything to my PC so I can watch them at my leisure and in the proper order since most everything I order are series. Doubt this would be an issuer for most BR orders though.

PIRATE!!!

Shiver me timbers, he’s made us out. Set full sail and make for Tortuga.

Thanks for the feedback on zip.ca Cam. I was wondering about turnaround time. If discs come out of TO I, like you, would be in good shape.

Hey, Bluray is so dead, we're not even talking about it in the 'Bluray is dead' thread.

Bluray is dead, but Blu-ray lives on!

I found the turn around time for me out here was just a few days, most of the time. IIRC, ZIP uses warehouses in the major centers to keep a number of high demand titles in that area.

I should be setting sail with you!

Thanks for the favorable input on zip.ca guys. Much appreciated!

We haven't rented anything in ages - usually watching whatever's on the cable box - but the convenience that zip seems to provide may well change that.

I was going to email Zip.ca but I'll ask here. How big is the packaging for say a single DVD. I have one of the last of a dying breed, a rural mailbox at the end of my driveway, and I have to drive a half hour to pick up any parcels that they deem not to fit.

The DVDs are delivered in an envelope the size of a DVD(they ship only the DVD, no case) so you're good to go!

Thanks! I was hoping this was the answer.

I have had full size DVD cases from Amazon that I have had to drive to the post office for, but other times they send them along. The full size cases do fit in my mail box but the delivery method seems to depend on the mood of the postmaster (it's a one lady shop.)