Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Technical Questions Constant subwoofer adjustments

I have an older 12" Speakerlab sub hooked up to my Speakerlab satellite system that seems to need adjustments for each cd I play. I listen to classical music and I suppose the differences in recording companies, orchestras, halls and studios in which they record as well as the mixing of the music contribute to this problem. Another factor is the age of the recordings since my cd's vary from early 50's transfers to present sacd's and dvd-audio technology.

I am curious if this is an unusual phenomena for me or do others experience this problem to one degree or another. And if so, would a more up-to-dare sub help to solve my problem so that adjustments could be made less frequently?

For example would an EP350 help solve this irritation? Are the adjustments made on any subwoofer able to be accomplished via remote? Does the DSP chip in the EP400 & 500 series help to solve this problem?

I know to a large degree it is a matter of personal taste. I am rather tired of a boomy response for one cd and without any adjustments the next cd in my changer may have total inadequate bass.

Thanks for your input. Should you like to recommend other brands and models I'd be happy to consider them. My room is approx 1925 cu ft., and for now it is strictly a stereo setup.

My modest system of the near future will consist of a newly purchased Denon AVR-2309CI or an AVR-889; an already owned Pioneer DV563A DVD/SACD/DVD-Audio player; a new pair of Axiom M60's and a my present Denon DP23F turntable with a Shure V-15 Type III cartridge (I can't part with my boyhood vinyl collection). Of course this includes my older 12" sub powered by a 130 watt sub amp custom made to run my Speakerlab sub.

I have also been exploring audio component connection wiring and haven't yet to determine how important really good quality wiring will contribute to my listening enjoyment. Any thoughts on this? At some point I want to expand the system for surround sound and HT.

Some of you may have already read and answered my novice-like questions. There was a time some 20 years ago I was on top of all of this, but the field is far too complex now and this forum is a great resource. Thanks for your thoughts....Lee

Hi Captain. I am not sure you have described your problem well enough for us to know what you are trying to solve.

Part of what you are saying seemst to be that there is not enough bass on some recordings. You also mention boominess. That is usually one frequency being overemphasized either by the sub or the room.

The first cannot be solved as that is what is in the recording. If you want more bass than the engineers put in the recording, the only way to do that is to adjust your sub/bass.

A boomy sub can be upgraded to one that produces sound more accurately. A boomy room needs to be treated.

Normally, once you have calibrated all your speakers/sub correctly to the same dB levels, either by using a Radio Shack SPL meter, or the built in test tones/mic that come with most receivers these days, you normally don't have to constantly adjust the levels of the sub.

Now, some people like to have the sub levels set a little higher than the other speakers, some leave them matched, that is user preference.

I use my receivers pink noise, and set everything to around 75dB's. I have 3 subs spread out throughout the room, and when they are all turned on, they combine to be at around 78-80dB's on the meter from the listening position.

Also, keep in mind room placement for a sub is the hardest thing to deal with to get it right.

Note also that you can adjust the sub level via the receiver's remote (at least on my 3808).

When I push the "center button" (or "select") on my MX700 remote, an on-screen GUI comes up that allows me to change any of the speaker levels, including the sub.

By remembering that, in this case, I normally keep the sub output at +4dB, I can return it to "reference" as needed without dealing with arbitrary knob settings on the sub itself.

Lee,

The best way I have found to fix a similar issue has been to convert my entire music collection to MP3. Most MP3 rippers have an automatic gain control that will boost the level of older recordings. This will minimize your need to change the output level from song to song.

-Peener

Captain, your problem is a very common one and replacing your subwoofer won’t help. I have the same issue but mostly with movies.

Both Peener and Mark’s suggestions will work but unfortunately neither is perfect and I don’t know of a perfect solution yet.

Converting your standard CDs to MP3 allows you to use the “Volume Leveling” feature but now your making your lossless CD into a “lossy” MP3 plus volume leveling imposes another quality hit. Both of which you may or may not be able to notice.

Converting your CDs to FLAC a lossless format allows some players to use “Replay Gain” to normalize the volume for playback. But again replay gain imposes a quality hit.

Unfortunately just because you normalize the volume doesn’t mean you won’t still have varying bass relative to the other frequencies if the CDs have their bass frequencies mastered differently. Also this technique won’t help at all with multi-channel SACD or DVD-A tracks.

IMO if you really want to maintain quality then using the remote to change the level of the subwoofer is the way to go. Like Mark’s my Denon remote will allow changing the volume of any channel by pressing the “Channel Select (CH SEL)/Enter” button. That brings up a menu of the speaker channels. Using the up and down arrow lets you move through the channels and the left and right button decrease and increase the volume of the selected channel.

This problem is so annoying for me with movies, that once I watch a movie, I write down all the speaker level settings on s 3x5 card and keep it in the DVD case. That way when I watch it again I don’t have to play around finding the best speaker settings. The subwoofer channel isn’t the only one that has this issue the center and surrounds do also assuming you’re using the mains as a baseline.

However, calibrating your system as Randy described above is a must. That way you can be sure you are hearing the recording the way it was intended and can then tweak from there. Remember in audio “I tweak therefore I am.”

As to your speaker wire question…I’m in the camp that says speaker wire is speaker wire and as long as the gauge is thick enough to carry the signal the distance you need that’s as good as it’s gonna get. And as for interconnects as long as they aren’t corroded they're fine. If you do a lot of component swapping terminating your wire with plugs is nice but if your like me and just set it up and leave it then bare wire works fine.

There are others who totally disagree with my view and they may be right but I can’t tell the difference. I would say that if you have extra money to spend then other things like room treatments would likely make more difference than wire. Again just my opinion.

Cheers,
Dean

Lee, although your post was fairly lengthy, you didn't really ever describe what "adjustments"(crossover?, level?)you made in response to what problem. I also listen to classical CDs recorded from about 1930 to date, but never need to make an adjustment directly to my EP500. If it's a question of some older recordings being bass-shy, this can be helped to a limited extent by applying a little bass boost with the tone controls.

As to speaker wiring, "really good quality" shouldn't be a factor, since all commercially available copper wire is of sufficient quality to do the rather simple job of supplying a low resistance metal path for the power wave traveling down its outside.

When you get your M60s and the 2309/889 you should definitely set up surround speakers so that you can extract the ambience(using DPLII, etc.)coming from directions other than the front which is contained in your CDs and LPs and send it to the surrounds where it belongs.

You've all been very helpful. In terms of my problem description I am not technically minded enough to fully articulate the issues. My crossover setting is constant and are the contour settings. I think "grunt" understands the issue and has a similar problem. For now I cannot remotely change any sub settings. My receiver is close to 20 years old and my speakers are 30. The newest piece of equipment I have is the DVD player...about 3 years old. I do think that once I buy the Denon and the M60's I'll better be able to control my equipment. I have no ability for calibrating my system...man I'm barely past the mid-20th century when it comes to my electronics. So I need to put in for the M60's and get that Denon avr 2309.

Interesting. I guess I have just accepted that bass levels are different for each disc I own and I accept that some of it is bass shy. I pretty much set the sub and leave it there.

If I want music with lots of bass, I can always put my pipe organ disc on.