Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Advice from Axiom Owners M22 questions Axiom or not? Help!!!

Call around to local independent HT shops. Ask if they have any used subs returned for upgrades. I got a few year old $1500 Paradigm Servo15 for $350. That is bang for the buck! ;o)

John, I’m not sure if I follow completely but it looks like what you are saying is the STF-2 could take over at 90hz and that my receiver would allow the speakers to produce sounds between 90 and 100Hz despite the crossover being set at 100Hz? Or the STF-2 is capable of sounds over 90hz?
Another thing that kind of concerns me about STF-2 is that woofer points to the floor.

Wouldn’t that produce somewhat distorted sound?

I want a good punch and detail in the bass without the boom.
Also, I probably would want a sub that could be tuned to cutoff at certain low frequency as well.
M22 has a sharp drop in response at 90Hz.

PB13 Ultra is out of the price range. Too bad about the bump on PB12-nsd.

I will take a look at the Paradigms mentioned before. Although, I’m not sure if I like the idea of a used sub. Kind of like to have a warranty etc.
But I will take a look at that

Cheers, Arthur

BTW. M22 is on the way hoping to see it on Friday!!!!!!!

Hey Adrian,

You know the dealer I went to said – ‘1600$ but let me check and said 1800$’ I guess I looked like a sucker to him. This was the only suspicious experience I had at a store and I went to few.
I listen to his RS 6 told him the box had a lot of resonance which it did. He offered to setup RS8 but I told him I didn’t have the time. When I told him about B&W 683 for the same price he knew he was busted.

Arthur, it's your second sentence that has the correct interpretation. The STF-2(and other Hsu subs)can certainly operate above 90Hz; it's just the internal low-pass filter(which can be turned off)which has a maximum setting of 90Hz. With it turned off the STF-2 would be capable of frequencies above 100Hz and it would be the receiver crossover at 100Hz which controlled the M22/sub blend.

Many of the finest subs are downward-firing and this is no cause for concern.

No, the M22 doesn't have a "sharp drop" below 90Hz. If you're getting this from looking at the curve taken in an anechoic chamber, this doesn't show what happens in the bass in a typical listening room. For example, the M22s in my listening room have good response to below 60Hz.

John,
Thanks for the explanation with the crossovers. That is good to know. In that case I will read a little about the downward-firing subs. I sort of assumed the sound would be good for movies not music.
I don't want a bose 901 and reflective sound.
However, I almost went for the Ohm Walsh tall minitower! At the last moment decided it probably would have been hard to place.
Glad to hear M22 is fine at 60hz. Who knows perhaps that will be enough and there will be no need for the sub but I’m sort of already in the sub shopping mode.

John, is there any concern that letting the sub work above 90 (up to say 120) would cause localization of the sub? I would worry that letting a budget oriented sub work out of its prime zone and into a more localized frequency would degrade the image rather badly? That is one reason I tend to prefer my sub crossed at 45hz so it is only working in that area it is designed for, and where the towers (and amp) start to drop off.

Yes, they do become more localized. The usual solution is to have the sub positioned up front with the mains that way the bass appears to come from the mains.

Charles, sure that would be of some concern, but don't overlook the key point that Arthur has only a 100Hz crossover available on his receiver. If the sub is reasonably near the mains a 100Hz crossover, rolling off the sub at 24dB/octave, isn't likely going to be a significant problem. The STF-2 that I suggested certainly is a fine performer in the 100Hz area.

Any sub that I'd be interested in would certainly perform very well at frequencies much higher than 45Hz, and I'd expect it to play louder and with lower distortion in the 40-80Hz octave than the main speakers.

I'm running a 10" Velodyne with a pair of M22s in my garage system. I'm using the Velodyne's cross over set to 100Hz. The sub and the speakers have disappeared into an unexpectedly huge wall of sound. Ultimate sound field for car waxing. Speakers integrate perfectly with the sub and sound full range.

Incredible improvement from the tinny sound the M22s made without a sub.

Good deal. I could never get mine to blend well with the mains cutoff at 80. Now it works fine. For HT, it does not matter, but for music I just could not get used to the sub reaching up so high. Big point here is the B&W sub may not be as good as the others mentioned here. I does its job, but I find its sweet spot is below 50.