Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater Should I buy a more powerful receiver?

Just recently finished putting together my new home theater. After reading numerous forums, I'm concerned that perhaps I bought an underpowered receiver for my setup. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

I currently have a Denon AVR-1910 driving 2 M22's, 2 QS4's and a VP150 center channel. My room size is 11ft X 13ft X 7ft (a little over 1000 cubic feet), listening area is about 11 feet from front speakers.

The AVR-1910 seems to have no problems driving these speakers at high levels in this room...and the sound is the best I have ever heard (but I'm very new to this home theater stuff).

The only other Denon receiver that would be within my budget is the AVR-2310. My question for all you knowledgable people is: would I notice a significant improvement in sound quality ($300 worth) moving from the 1910 to the 2310, or is this price difference more features than sound quality? The AVR-1910 has all the features I need (and then some) so I don't know if I can justify the price difference between these two receviers.

Again, any info or advice is appreciated! Thanks!

Do you have a sub? If not, that will help you a lot with "impact" for both movies and music.

What makes you think you need a different or more powerful receiver? Is it not loud enough for you?

I doubt the change to the other Denon would make ANY discernible difference in sound quality.

If the 1910 has pre-outs, you could add an external amp.

No difference in sound quality. The 1910 is totally adequate to drive those speakers to very loud, undistorted, levels. Keep in mind the difference between 90wpc (1910)and a 105wpc(2310) is probably less than 1 dB, you would be achieving nothing.

Thanks for the replies.

tomtuttle- I am using the Axiom EP350...no complaints at all about the bass. Let me check my understanding of something...with a powered subwoofer like the EP350, the receiver really doesn't do anything other than allocate the correct frequencies to the sub and send the signal? A "more powerful" receiver won't make the bass any better on a powered sub, right?

I guess I shouldn't have used the term "more powerful"...what I really meant was "higher quality." I didn't know if I would hear a huge difference in sound quality from the AVR-1910 vs the 2310...I thought there might be some, but I didn't know if it would be $300 worth of difference!

I have the 2310 but I would not expect much more from it with audio than the 1910. It does have a few more options and a better video scaler but for audio no big difference other than slightly more power which won't change anything in terms of sound quality with the 22's. These are good receivers, and you are not driving real hard to drive speakers with it, so I would not worry at all. To really go up in quality in the receiver you would have to spend $2000 or so to get the high end made in Japan Denons/Onkyos/Pioneers/Marantz etc.

You are correct about the sub, the amp does not send "power" to the sub, it just sends a signal which is then driven by the amp in the sub itself.

The receiver sends the signal only, the 350 sub has its own amp. In a controlled blind A/B test at normal/moderate listening levels, you would most likely not be able to tell an audible difference between a $300 receiver and a $1500 receiver. You would "hear" no difference. As Mr Potatohead mentioned, the main difference would be in features.

Thanks again to everyone for the information. If upgrading would simply mean more features, then I think I will be sticking with the AR-1910 for now...it already fills all of my needs and then some. Besides, I will probably be bitten by the upgrade bug in just a few years anyway!

BW, as some of the previous replies indicated, there'd be no difference whatever in quality and the quantity would be affected only to the extent of an increase of a dB or less in the maximum sound level(e.g., 106dB rather than 105dB).

To add to John's comment, the 1 db difference you would not be able to hear. That means that you can play either receiver equally loud and never know the diff.

Save that $300 for an upgrade to the M80s.

Make sure you have the 1910 calibrated properly. If you haven't tried Audyssey, give it shot. Also, make sure you all you speakers are set to small (this allows the sub to handle the all the bass).

Dave-

The 1910 is properly calibrated, ran Audyssey and I'm very pleased with the results. The system sounds awesome! I was just wondering if upgrading to the 2310 would in any way make my system sound...um...awesom-er!

Sounds like I would just be paying for features that I don't need.

Yep, I agree with the others. Enjoy what you've got now and wait for upgraditis to strike on something else you'll appreciate more than a few more watts.

Jason

I'm in the agreeance with everyone in telling you to save your $300 dollars for your set-up. However I do have once question for those who state that 105 db's is completely indistinguishable from 106 db's... In discussing the differences between my Emotiva that has up to 400 watts per channel to power my M80's, it's been made very clear to me that I'm not actually achieving much more than I could have with my Denon's 125 watts per channel output. And as I do not know all the technical aspects of amplifiers, SPL levels and how they relate to eachother, I have accepted that I'm not actually able to achieve many extra db's with my external amp. Ok, I now understand that. So if my Denon was capable of powering my M80's upwards of say 120 db's in my living room and my Emotiva can only help them gain a max peak of say 123 db's (I'm just throwing random numbers out there since I don't have an SPL meter), then I must say, there is a HUGE difference between 120 and 123 db's. Perhaps the numbers don't make it look like you're gaining much volume, but I'm here to testify that there is a very real, and almost scary difference between my two power sources top ends.

So, while 25 extra watts per channel may not be distinguishable from your starting point, a few db's is indeed noticable, if the information I've been given is correct. Then again the M22's are rated for 200 watts max, so at 90 watts per channel you're pushing them with a good percentage of their maximum recommended power. You should be fine with the 1910.

Its a logarythmic scale, so +3 db is much more than 3 times +1 db and would indeed be noticable. Some claim to be able to hear as little as 1db difference in levels.

I would be interested to hear Johnk and Alan's opinions, but I would think that if you are in a situation where you are close to the limits of your receiver, it would be possible to hear more subtle effects from the clipping of peaks in music with a lot of dynamics. In such a situation another 100w might not get you a lot of extra volume, but if it eliminates clipping of peaks, you would hear it.

The $300 difference between the 1910 and the 2310 could also go into a nice little power amp if the OP felt his system needed a "little" extra. I'm not sure why there's such a difference in $$ between these two Denons, they are spec'd pretty close.

The 1910 is 'Kosher'.

It's blood was drained before butchering?

After it is hung by it's HDMI cables.

1910 is popular, around here they were backordered for a month or so and I didn't want to wait so I "was forced" to upgrade into the 2310. The 2310 does have the higher end Anchor Bay video processor but really, not many people will see much difference. The extra HDMI input is nice though.

Can you add an external amp to the 1910? I couldn't find any preouts for an ext. amp on the pics of it. Maybe I'm overlooking it?

I want to upgrade my HK247 to one of the newer denon's since my receiver won't utilize my back speakers when playing a movie in 7.1 on my Blu-Ray discs.

I don't think so. That was one of the reasons I picked up the 2808 demo unit. It was the lowest cost way to get pre-outs (that was not a yami 663).

There aren't any pre-outs on the Denon 1910. You'll have to step up to the 3310 if you want them.

I wonder why all the manufacturers withhold those preouts until you get into a receiver that costs as much as a pre/pro does?

I was going to say Pioneer doesn't, because my $500 (list, I paid $360 for it), 1018 has 7.1 pre-outs. But the newer 1019 dropped them. Definitely holding on to this thing.

Do you REALLY wonder why?

Ok conspiracy theories aside, perhaps their field research has proven that the vast majority of people who spend less than say $500 (I'm not sure what the 1910 is priced at) aren't into uprades like external amps, and therefore they save their time & money by not putting pre-outs in those recievers.

I don't know that for a fact, but it would be my best guess.

It also forces those that catch the upgrade bug to buy into higher priced units just to have those kind of options, gotta love that marketing.

I doubt thats the thinking. Look at Yamaha. They went the other way, cheaping out on the amp and throwing in the kitchen sink.

I guess that is why I have never liked Yamaha avr's. A quick check shows the RXV 665 as their lowest priced unit with preouts at $550US, not too bad especially if used as a pre/pro to avoid their hit and miss attitude toward their amp sections.

Could be that some of these AVR's are geared more towards the HTIB crowd as well, which probably constitutes a greater percentage of buyers.