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#278568 - 11/10/09 08:27 PM Denon 3310 or Pio Elite SC-25 anyone?
oldskoolboarder Offline
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Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2185
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
These are on my short list to replace my great Pio 45TX. Both of these are similar but it seems that the Denon has slightly more features and possibly 1 more Dolby support feature. However the SC-25 does have dual HDMI out (which could be solved w/ a cheap Monoprice splitter). One advantage to the Pio is that I am searching for just the right Kuro and they would pair well w/ the HDMI control.

I got my F.I.L. a Denon 2808 a while back and thought it was very good, so my Denon experience is positive too.

Does anyone have experience w/ these specific receivers? I know Denon won't be a problem and I personally like Pio Elite.

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#278569 - 11/10/09 08:30 PM Re: Denon 3310 or Pio Elite SC-25 anyone? [Re: oldskoolboarder]
SirQuack Offline
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Registered: 01/29/04
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Denon has Audyssey, something others can't match.
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#278581 - 11/10/09 09:23 PM Re: Denon 3310 or Pio Elite SC-25 anyone? [Re: SirQuack]
Riker Offline
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Registered: 10/16/06
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Loc: Ottawa, Ontario
 Originally Posted By: sirquack
Denon has Audyssey, something others can't match.


Onkyo also has Audyssey.
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#278583 - 11/10/09 09:28 PM Re: Denon 3310 or Pio Elite SC-25 anyone? [Re: oldskoolboarder]
JohnK Offline
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Cesar, I'd also suggest that you give preference to a Denon or Onkyo with Audyssey MultEQ XT.
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#278612 - 11/10/09 11:50 PM Re: Denon 3310 or Pio Elite SC-25 anyone? [Re: JohnK]
nickbuol Offline
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Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5396
Loc: Marion, IA
What I find interesting is that some people swear by Audyssey, and other say to turn it off for best sound... Never owning a product with it, I can't say one way or another.

I am a big Pioneer fan. Have always been because I steered away from their cheap stuff and you usually get a lot of bang for your buck, but my next go around will have me doing what you are doing and looking at other brands as well.
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#278617 - 11/11/09 12:10 AM Re: Denon 3310 or Pio Elite SC-25 anyone? [Re: nickbuol]
nickbuol Offline
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Registered: 09/16/04
Posts: 5396
Loc: Marion, IA
I did a quick search and found that the Pioneer doesn't touch any digital video signal coming in, which may be a good thing in some cases, but if you are looking for some sort of video processing (upconverting or whatever) it only does that on analog inputs. Otherwise, I am finding that if that isn't an issue, you get a little better "value" with the Pioneer for what people are calling "mainstream" features (does it play audio well? does it have good power handling? does it have lots of inputs and outputs? etc).

For straight up audio work, any of those should work. It comes down to the bells and whistles. Some have Audyssey, Pioneer has MCACC which is pretty darn good too so that becomes a debate over which is better, blah blah blah... Tough call. You should be happy no matter which way you go.
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#278619 - 11/11/09 12:19 AM Re: Denon 3310 or Pio Elite SC-25 anyone? [Re: nickbuol]
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2185
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
I know, tough call. I've always relied on MCACC vs an SPL and it's been great. I can see that Audyssey would be fine too. I've read the same regarding the video. If I used an outboard scaler maybe I'd care but I don't. I've read people liking the ICE amps on the Pio over the Denon, I suppose it's more relative to sound quality. But I don't really crank my system up since it's next to our bedroom. I get the looks from the wife when I've got the surrounds sound in full regalia. I may move to M60's but I'm sure they both provide sufficient power.

Decisions...decisions. Hopefully the holiday sales can make this decision easier.

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#278682 - 11/11/09 01:07 PM Re: Denon 3310 or Pio Elite SC-25 anyone? [Re: SirQuack]
PeterChenoweth Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 10/23/03
Posts: 1349
Loc: Jacksonville, IL
 Originally Posted By: sirquack
Denon has Audyssey, something others can't match.


Except that it's completely subjective whether Audyssey actually improves anything.

Personally....

I tasted Audyssey MultEQ when I owned an Onkyo 876. Completely unimpressed with the changes that it felt were necessary. Made the sound hollow and weak, and completely screwed up the 3-dimensionality of the M80's in stereo mode. Off, thank-you-very-much. Perhaps Denon does it better.

My old Pioneer has their {very} early MCACC system, and I've never been impressed with it either. I leave it off. When I recently owned a much-newer Elite SC-05, its new-and-improved MCACC did a fair job. But only just. The changes it made weren't as offensive as what Audyssey wanted to do, but I still didn't really think it improved the overall soundstage much. Just kinda made it sound, different. Turned that off too.

Perhaps I am just a Luddite when it comes to sound processing, but I've yet to hear any system that's better than one's ears, a little attention paid to speaker positioning, and a classic Radio Shack SPL meter. Yeah, get off my lawn, too. ;\)

So I guess my $.02 would be to buy an AVR that has the features and specs that look best to you overall, and not base the decision purely on Audyssey vs. MCACC vs. {whatever}. Personally, my next AVR is likely going to be a Denon, simply because I'm ready for a change away from Pioneer (had my 43TX for 7 years now, and was sort of mixed about the SC-05), and Denon AVR's seem to have an astoundingly happy group of followers, both here and in other forums. It just seems that I read of far fewer complaints of Denon gear than I do of any other manufacturer. They seem to build very robust and high quality AVR's that play well with other gear. Both in terms of 4-ohm M80's, and in connectivity to other equipment. Unlike Pioneer, where certain HDMI features only work if you have a Pio HDTV; which I think is BS.

I will say this though, at the risk of provoking the ire of the "amps don't matter club", I felt that the SC-05 did really make my Axioms sing. I can't prove that it had anything to do with the ICE amplification, but the sound coming from my Axioms was *damn* good. Extremely clean & clear dynamics, with amazing dimensionality, up to ear-splitting levels. Really, really, really good sound. Even on my M80's, which, with their 4-ohm impedance, aren't technically supported by Pio Elite AVR's. Had I kept the SC-05, I would have dumped my LPA-1, no questions asked.

Good luck! Fun times, buying a new AVR. \:\)
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#292570 - 02/16/10 03:03 PM Re: Denon 3310 or Pio Elite SC-25 anyone? [Re: PeterChenoweth]
oldskoolboarder Offline
connoisseur

Registered: 05/25/03
Posts: 2185
Loc: Menlo Park, CA
OK, I'm back to this again. I may be relegating my 45TX to our new office/kitchen receiver so I can use the USB input w/ our Mac.

The 3310 and SC-25 are still my top 2. Does anyone have any personal experience with either one? I know people rave about the ICE but power has never been an issue for me, I'm just driving M22's and a sub in a medium sized room. I may decide on M60's or M80's if I decide to go towers but not right now. I'd assume either one can drive these.

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#292594 - 02/16/10 04:51 PM Re: Denon 3310 or Pio Elite SC-25 anyone? [Re: oldskoolboarder]
jakewash Offline
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Registered: 12/26/03
Posts: 10420
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
You would assume correctly. I have no experience with the Sc series and Denon just works through out their line up
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