Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion The Water Cooler Travel Trailer/Campers questions....help guys...

OK, I hope some of you like to camp or vacation and own Travel Trailers/RV's? We are looking at a new brand on the market that is totally green made and light weight, called Evergreen Ever-Lite. They are the only MFG of this kind....anyway....

I have some questions about additional options, so we can start negotiating a price. We live in Iowa, but there is a HUGE RV dealer in Michigan called Terrytown, they are the Walmart of the RV industry. They are the best prices of anyone by far, and people come from western Canada, just to deal with them....they buy in such huge quantities, the little guy can't compete...

There are some options available, that would increase the price, can you provide input if you think they are required. We are looking at a Evergreen Ever-Lite 31DS which is 32.4ft overall and 5,347 dry weight. I have a 2000 Chevy Silverado Z71 offroad package with towing package...

Options

• ALUMINUM WHEELS - not sure what comes standard for wheels, does have radial tires.
• 15K BTU AIR CONDITIONER - standard is 13.5 ducted, karen has read that longer trailers might need the 15k?
• 20” LCD FLAT PANEL TV - maybe we would be better buying one locally, but mfr says it might be standard, checking...
• GAS OVEN - I think we will just stay with standard electric...
• HIGH OUTPUT EXHAUST FAN - BATH ROOM - versus standard fan?
• SOLAR BATTERY CHARGER - not sure about this...
• POWER TONGUE JACK - is this a nice "have to have" or are the crank types ok?
• 20# SEE THROUGH COMPOSITE LP TANKS - comes standard with 30# tanks hard covered with top access door, I've heard some places won't will these new composite tanks...

If you have any input that would be great...also, I think I may need some additional things for my truck to make this all work (sway bars?, different receiver hitch? and maybe electric brake system?) If you can review that also that would be great.. I was looking at the hitch bar under my rear bumber, says 11,000 towing and 900 hitch weight, but my current receiver that slides in is only a 2" ball and is rated at 6,000 towing and 500 hitch down weight. I assume I need a different receiver assembly that slides into my existing cross bar?

thanks, Randy

We gave up ownership of RVs after hurricane Wilma destroyed our 30 footer in a campground on Lake Okeechobee in '05 ... can't remember all of the specifics regarding the camper but I do know my 3/4 ton diesel wasn't pulling it with a 2" ball.

Sorry for your loss Rick.... We don't have to worry about hurricanes up here, but tornadoes and blizzards might be a concern.

If we get one Rick, we plan to head down your way to take the kids on vacation.

Actually it wasn't that bad at all Randy, insurance took care of it for us and at the time we were not really using it nearly as much as we probably should have, although we do miss having one occasionally.

Randy, try not to plan a vacation with your new RV between August through October near Lake Okeechobee.

I used to have a 20ft fishing boat that I towed with my 2001 Silverado until I sold it(the boat). Anyway, the trailer/boat/gear weighed in at around 3500lbs which was well below the tow limits of the truck. I was using a class 3 hitch(I think) and my trailer had hydraulic self activating brakes, triggered by inertia at the ball hitch(no electrics involved). You'd need at least a class 4 hitch and I would think that a trailer of that weight would come with either hydraulic or electric brakes. I can't remember exactly what the towing capacity was on my truck but I doubt if it was much more than 7000 lbs give or take(3.90 rear).

Don't know if there's any info there that helps or not...

Pick me up on the way

I'm a little out of the way, but a ride would be nice....

It claims to sleep upto 8, so what the heck.

Randy, I will say (not like my opinion matters) that it's very commendable of you to be purchasing a RV like that; every little bit makes a difference!

Wow Rick, insurance aside, it must have been pretty sad to see a big, family item destroyed like that. I can certainly relate at this time.

Randy, I'm a tent guy but here is what popped into my mind on a few items as I read your list.


• ALUMINUM WHEELS -- Just a cosmetic thing. I doubt that the weigh advantage of aluminum verses a vehicle that big is going to net you any notable payback in Miles per Gallon.

• 15K BTU AIR CONDITIONER - As I said, I'm a tent guy but based on my summer living in a travel trailer while our house was being built, I would not cheap out on the AC.

• GAS OVEN - Gas burners on the stove top are certainly nicer to cook on. Instant heat levels, instant cool... Gas also ensures you can cook without worry in places where there is no electrical hookup. (("C'mon, Get er level before that thar Walmart closes! I need a new Nascar hat. Get er Dunnnn!!!"))

• HIGH OUTPUT EXHAUST FAN - BATH ROOM - An entire family or pile of friends in a small, enclosed space after a big Chile dinner? Do you even need to ask this question?

I know nothing about anything else in the list.

As for towing.
Your hitch receiver and ball are all rated combined maximum up to 6000 lbs and that is for the GVW. So unfortunately, you have to use the 7543 lbs number, not the lower, dry weight.

6000 lbs is the max for a Class II hitch, which I'm assuming you have, so you can't just add a stronger tongue/ball. You will need to replace the entire thing with a Class III hitch.

Also, you need to consider tongue weight which even at your dry weight, is over the allowable 300 LBS for a Class II hitch.

(Also, don't mess around with tongue weight by redistributing the load somehow in the trailer, that can lead to very dangerous driving conditions.)

Some would say these mandated load ratings are conservative and would have no problem exceeding them. Unfortunately, your insurance company won't think that way if you have an accident.

Hope that helps a bit.

Class II (solid 1 1/4 square tube)max weight is 3500lbs, Class 3(2" square tube) is 7500lbs and class 4(also 2" square tube) is 10000lbs.

The ball size is dependent on the tongue it fits into, 2 1/8 or 2 1/2 would be common for the size of trailer you are looking at.

Air conditioning is nice as long as you have a generator or camp where you can plug the trailer in, otherwise it is useless.

Gas stove eliminates the need to draw on power, battery or land, for cooking and if you ever run out of power you can crack a vent and window and briefly use it for heat.

If the trailer comes with electric brakes and most do, you will need a controller. There are many designs but all do the same thing, I have a Tekonsha P3 and it is very handy as I have towed trailers of varying size and I can easily adjust how the controller works.

Hand cranks for the tongue are OK, they are not that hard to twist unless you have some injury preventing you from cranking it around.

Solor recharger is nice if you camp where you have to use battey power all the time but most end up buying a generator and recharge batteries that way, otherwise the solr will extend the use age time available before needing a full recharge, unless you get crazy with the Solar panels then it should be able to recharge the battery on a sunny day, but these systems are expensive.

Standard propane tanls are good enough for me, just make sure you fill them before a long trip.

Aluminum wheels are just cosmetic, your preference is all that matters here.

We always thought about getting a travel trailer, but could never figure out how to get it into our Hotel room.

Oops. Mismatch on my Max weight numbers. I forgot about the note I made in the margins of the text I was looking at. (had to take a trailer course as I used to be on a list to move generators around in emergency situations) Numbers were incorrect in the book and the numbers I have written from the instructor are...

I 2000/200
II 3500/350
III 5000/500
IV (WC) 7500/750
IV (WD) 12000/1200

Jay, you will need to help me out here though as I do not recall what was meant by WC and WD.

Also, they still don't match your numbers so maybe just ignore me altogether. Since they are notes, they could be wrong, although they do match some pages I just Googled out of curiosity. Inconclusive though as there were different asnwers out there as well.

Are these numbers federally mandated, industry, other ??

Murph, unless I am not understanding your end statements, I'm being told it would be a mistake NOT to get a Load Distribution hitch with distibution bars, everyone gets those? Unless your talking about something else...

Oh No. Those are indeed a great idea.

What I was referring to is mostly done on a flatbed type trailer, not a camper anyways. What I meant was that people will try to reduce the problem of too much tongue weight (the weight on the ball) by moving the load towards the back of the trailer, playing with it's center of gravity.

This will certainly relieve the load on your trailer hitch but will also make the trailer very unstable making it wobble and snake along behind you.

Alternatively, too much weight on the ball can detrimentally lighten your trucks front end. Steering and braking can eventually become effected in a very bad way. Fun if you like to pop wheelies though....

I should have been more clear perhaps.

Murph I pulled the numbers from my head and from a website to double check I was remembering right.

http://hitches4less.com/trailer-hitch-classes.html

I would recommend going one step beyond the load distribution to an anti-sway system, Reese makes a dual cam style that effectively locks in the trailer while straight ahead but when turning the arms simply slide over the cam. I found the dual cam to be much superior to the friction style.

http://www.reeseprod.com/video/runvideo.asp?video1=WDDualCamSwayControl.flv

gotcha thanks guys.

The Internet seems to vary on this one. I can find sights supporting my instructor's numbers, your numbers, and even for other numbers. Obviously, they can't all be correct. In any case, you definitely need a bigger receiver for your truck. That is for certain.

Perhaps Randy it's worth a call to the appropriate motor vehicle authority to make sure you get the right system to protect you if there is ever a conflict.

The talk of Weight Distributed Hitches has perhaps answered my other question though. I wonder if the WD does not stand for just that, Weight Distributed versions.

Also, check the towing capacity on your truck. I can't remember now if you mentioned it. A bigger hitch class doesn't increase trucks capacity beyond the manufacturers number.

Most of the numbers are reasonably close, at least close enough I wouldn't worry too much about it. Once you get into the monster size weights 7000lbs and up you pretty much should be looking for a class 4 or higher.

Good point on the trucks towing capacity, 5000-7000lbs is a rough estimate for most half tons, which is why many come from the factory with class 3 hitches.

Also look for a numerically high rear axle for towing heavier loads. Z71's usually have a couple of ratios available, in the early 2000's they were 3.90 or 4.10.

Realistically 3.90 or 4.10 are quite high and either ratio would work well, the 4.10 would give you slightly less fuel economy when not towing and the extra torque it would provide would be minimally noticeable, more of an issue when off roading and low speed high torque is required.

That was the reason for me choosing the 3.90 on my Silverado. I recall that the 4.10 had a 200-300 lb towing advantage over the 3.90 but I knew I was only towing around 3000 to 3500 lbs and mainly highway mileage to head up north fishing, so I opted for the 3.90. Most Z71 back in '01 seemed to be equipped with the 4.10's and I had a hard time finding the truck with all the options I wanted/didn't want, plus the 3.90.

From my experience...

An electric tongue winch is probably a standard item, if not I'd certainly recommend getting one. Hand crank leveling jacks will be fine, keep 'em lubricated, if there's an option for Kodiak brakes I'd ante up the extra cash and spring for them. I didn't opt for the Onan generator whenever we made the purchase, it will have one if we ever buy another and slide outs are good, very good! Our travel trailer was towed all over the country without any of those anti-sway, load leveling and whatever else contraptions the salesmen offer now days ... match the trailer/weight with the tow vehicle and keep the weight and balance in check and there shouldn't be any problems, we did have a simple single anti-sway bar that was used maybe a couple of times. Along those lines make sure the trailer/truck combo is perfectly level on a level surface, evenly distributed weight and matching the tow vehicle with the trailer is what it's all about.

Aerodynamics will be more of an issue with fuel mileage than weight will be with a boxy travel trailer, our boat weighs several thousand pounds more than our travel did but the truck got worse mileage towing the travel trailer ... if I were to buy again aerodynamics would be a big consideration for me.

Rick, I appreciate your advice. The salesmen are not the ones recommending the load balancing/sway systems, it is actually some people we know that have travel trailers and camp all over. Also, we have read many books as well as being on many forums. The feeling I get is these are a must, but again I'm no expert.

With a heavy trailer maybe Randy, but your only talking 6k pounds or less ... with the proper frame hitch and towing vehicle with the right weight distribution I'd not get it and see how it tows, if it doesn't tow like you want then you could always add it if you feel the need is there.

My 3/4 ton Ford pulled ours like it wasn't there, and that was with up to four or five dirt bikes and gear in the back of the trailer (it was a toy hauler) and I never had any issues with either sway or weight balance.

thanks man, ok my 2000 Silverado Z71 has a 3.73 axle (3.90 was not an option) and I didn't want 4.10 either. It has a tow/haul mode that changes the shifting intervals when pulling a heavy load. The sticker says the GVW of the truck is 6,400 lbs (truck + passangers + extras) and the Max tow rating is 7500lbs. I have the 5.3 Vortec which replaced the old 5.7 chevy engines. The 7,500 assumes vehicle weight plus driver and one passenger, any other passengers and equipment on the vehicle need to be subtracted from the Max Tow weight (kids, cooler, etc) most stuff will be in the trailer.

The specs on the trailer we are looking at are as follows:
Dry Weight of trailer (UVW) 5,347
Dry Hitch Weight 543
GVWR 7,543 (max weight of trailer when fully loaded.)

I think the tow bar under under my rear bumber is rated at 1,000 hitch weight, and 11,000 towing. Of course, I would need to get a different receiver/ball as my current one is a 2" ball for my smaller utility trailer I haul my mower on...

One other thing I should mention to see if this will cause issues. A few years ago I ordered a 3" "body lift" kit from JC Whitney for my truck. Keep in mind this is a body lift kit only, nothing else about the suspension was altered.

Not sure this will cause any problems, I don't think so according to the manufacturer's claims. I can tell a little that the side to side motion of the truck is slightly different since my center of gravity has been raised, but it is not bad.

I plan to have the shocks/suspension looked at, as well as the tranny, just to make sure I'm good to go in handling a trailer...

You will most likely need to get a new draw bar that is dropped by 3-4 inches or more depending on how high the trailer sits etc.. The trailer should sit level when hooked up to the truck(the antisway/load levelers help with this) and if the draw bar is too high .........well I think you can figure it out.

I disagree with Rick, the anti sway systems come in very handy when you have severe crosswinds etc. They also make it slightly less necessary to nail the front to back weight/loading ratio of the trailer. Are they necessary, no, but they sure make towing alot easier.

If the truck is stock other than the body lift I bet dollars to doughnuts Randy will need to *raise* the truck's hitch point to the trailer ... matter of fact, I'll almost guarantee it.

I'm sticking to my guns regarding the anti-sway bars, if the combination is correctly hitched and weight distributed he shouldn't have any issues, even in windy conditions. Any add on device for weight distribution or anti-sway is correcting for an issue that isn't right from jumpstreet, a band aid for a problem that should have been nipped at the bud.

Leeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeets get ready to RUUUUUUUUUUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuumble...

You're right, but at the same time why make it more difficult than it needs to be, far too many people do not take the time to ensure proper loading and the anti sway devices help. If they are out there and they work, which they do, why not use them and be as safe as possible?

Randy has a Z71 so it is a 4X4 (right Randy?) which is already taller than a standard truck combined with another 3-4" lift kit, I am quite sure he will need a dropped bar, unless he has a very tall frame height on that trailer, in which case he might be able to run straight out from the hitch.

Yep, it is the Z71 package 4x4. Jay, the lift kit was ONLY a body lift, so the hitch height was not changed, but I do have a 4" drop receiver now with 2" ball for my utility trailer currently. I hate trying to figure this stuff out.

I have no idea how tall a Z71 is but the lift kit is irrelevant because he said it was a body lift which is just adding spacers between the frame and the shell of the body. It raises the wheel wells as an inexpensive way to add larger tires but does not add any clearance on it's own. The frame, thus the hitch, remain at the same height.

Edit: Oops. Randy already explained that.

ha ha.

Forgot it was a body lift only, so only a marginal drop might be required. I use about a 2"-3" drop to hook up to my trailer and my parent's trailer with my 2006 F150, I would expect yours to need about the same.

The truck is a 2000, and I don't think I've ever had the breaks looked at, the shocks/suspension, transmission...probably would be good to verify these things before driving to Grand Rapids, MI. ;0

I had the same truck/engine/year sans the 4x4 stuff. Great truck, not a single problem ever, good mpg. All I ever towed was a couple of Sea-Doos, but IMO, the 5.3 with that gearing will make STEEP hills slow-going. That engine needs to revved up a bit - you'll want to be sure to use the Tow/Haul switch. OTOH, what you eastern fellers call "mountains" we call "hills" out West.

My Dad has had quite a few different trucks and trailers. He always bought the truck first then would buy a trailer approaching its towing capacity, decide the truck wasn't strong enough, buy a bigger truck, then buy a bigger trailer, decide the truck wasn't strong enough, buy a bigger truck, then buy a bigger trailer, etc....

Have you had the truck since 2000 Randy? since '01 I've had the brakes done twice plus new rotors the last time around, the ABS sensors replaced twice(recall) and cleaned an additional 2 times on the fronts at my own expense. Now I've just pulled the fuse for the front ABS because the sensors are buggered up again(very dangerous...increases stopping distance substantially). Approx 168,000 klmtrs so far, engine is fine but the brakes on this truck are poorly designed as far as the sensors go(and also the front hubs/bearings...).

yup, got it brand new off the showroom floor back in 2000. Lately the breaks have seemed a little soft, so I will need to get those inspected/changed. Mine just hit 80,000 miles

80,000 miles and you've never had the brakes done?

I used to have an enclosed car trailer. The seller included the load distributing hitch he was using (much the same as the pic randy posted). It was adjustable for drop as well as angle. As I recall there was a procedure for adjusting that angle- and level was not the goal. There was also a procedure for hooking up the bars each time as those are under tension at rest. I asked a racer freind about the antisway setup and he said it was most helpful when towing with a motorhome with a lot of rear overhang.
Happy camping

A few other questions:

I assume I will need to get an electric brake system for my truck, and assume I just plug them in under the dash? Can I use the ones at places like O'Reillys or Advanced Auto Parts, they seem to run around 60 bucks.

Also, not sure my Silverado has a transmission cooler, but not sure I need one with this light trailer?

You will definatly need a trans cooler. The wind resistance is a bigger deal than weight in your case.
My dad's 01 2500 had a provision of some kind in the cab to hook up a brake controller, but he never installed one.

Can't comment on the electric brakes as my trailer had hydraulic ones but whether you use a transmission cooler or not depends a lot on the load you are pulling, as well as the type of roads you will be driving on(going to the Rockies?), and also temperature(Arizona, middle of summer?).

Regardless, a tranny cooler will add life to the transmission and help your truck run much cooler under load. They're not all that expensive compared with a blown tranny or overheating engine...I'd err on the cautious side and get one.

Yes, you will need an electric brake controller( I think I mentioned in my first post). Most trucks have a wire harness connector that came with them in the owners manual/bag of goodies when the truck was new. You connect this wiring up to the brake controller wires and plug it in under the dash somewhere, you may even need to add a relay/isolator (or 2) to run a battery feed to the trailer so the trailer battery can charge up while you drive. many shops have the wire harness if you can't find yours or it never came with one. The controllers you see at the automotive stores will work just fine. I spent a few more bucks and went with one I can adjust easily, it is called the P3 by Tekonsha.

Just to let you know my truck already has a HD transmission cooler, it was one of the available options.

A High Def transmission cooler?.....AWESOME!!!