Axiom Home Page Forums General Discussion Home Theater More Misformation about Axiom's!!!

Hi: I belong to "Digital Home" one of the moderators "Hugh" had some interesting things(negative) to say about Axiom here is the link to it: http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=116264

I find his lack of knowledge about Axioms laughable for a host of a site!! It is one thing to like the paradigms better but not slag them.See what you guys think.

I am sure you could go to every forum talking about every speaker brand in existence and you will find AT LEAST one individual like this. It is not uncommon. This is subjectivity carried to the ridiculous, uninformed end of the spectrum. I also chuckle when you hear someone who "claim" they have compared similar style speakers of quality well known brands who talk about one "blowing away" the other in terms of performance or some other ridiculous comment like that. Those differences just don't exist especially when you are comparing Canadian built speakers like Paradigm and Axiom.

A significant number, especially many in the US are not aware that these companies along with PSB and others all started with the same roots of measuring speaker performance and developing their products at the NRC in Ottawa, hence, aside from their own particular cabinet designs, transparent, neutral sound is what the goal is of all them which, in turn, makes their "sound" similar to one another.

That is why as far as anyone who knows anything about the different speaker brands and their design (and have actually listened to them), know that comments like this are totally irrelevant.

I didn't think his 'critism' was too bad at all. The only input I thought he really gave was that he didn't like their build quality, what can you do, that was his opninion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I think we've all read a lot worse about axiom from some other links posted here.

I really enjoy mine and I think that's what matters.

He was misinforming people about the cost difference between the Studios and the Axioms and when someone posted the actual pricing differences he shut the thread down.

I particularly enjoyed his "I've been rudely assaulted by a first time poster (who is a member of the Axiom Audio forum) and by an "old hand" at the Axiom website so I am closing this thread" comment. I thought it was hilariously funny. I didn't see what I would consider an "insult" let alone an "assault." Anyone with skin that thin shouldn't even post on internet forums let alone run one. He'd last about 10 seconds on the AVS forum.

That being said, he is, of course welcome to his opinion and to express that opinion. However, he apparently is unwilling to grant the same freedom to anyone who disagrees with his opinion. Very sad.

Hi: To say thin skinned is an understatement .I've been banned from the site!! Oh well I stated on my first post that I listened to both the 60's V-5 AND the Axiom's which I thought and still do sounded better especially for the money.

I guess I'll just put up with all the rude people here with our"inferior" Axioms LOL

It pleases me to know that, though he can silence anyone who disagrees with him at his forum, over here he is impotent and we know he comes over here to read all the terrible things we're saying about him.

Why do you think he runs his own forum. It’s good to be King.

The greatest irony in this for me is that in over 3 years reading this forum I’ve seen some pretty outrageous hyperbole posted here by people with a grudge against Axiom or this forum and never once seen Axiom close or even moderate a thread. But this guy closes a thread based on posts over here. He would have looked a tad more mature if he had just left his reason for shutting it down that the OP had bailed and the thread went off topic and it was no longer relevant or productive and steered clear of the Narcissism

Now there is someone dying to get in the last word. How dare you disagree with the King!

Weellll!! "The King" has banned me from his little castle too!!

It would seem that when someone tries to help a poster to make an informed decision on a substancial purchase you must agree with the administrator.

I pointed out to the OP that he should consider Axioms if he was considering Paradigms as I did, as they are very similar sonically but that he could save a "not insubstancial" amount by choosing the Axioms over the P'digms.

"The King", fully entitled to his own opinion, tried to minimize my own in an immature and demeaning way by referring to me as a "first time poster" and pretty much called me a liar concerning the pricing of these two speakers(specifically Studio 100 vs M80s). I pointed out that there are many custom wood finishes for the M80s which do not exceed $2000 vs the $3000 +/- per pr. of Studio 100s (V5) that I was quoted by !!THREE!! different Paradigm dealers. Naturally he used Axiom's labour intensive "High Gloss Piano Rosewood" as his comparison, which is still a couple of hundred $'s less(more South of the Border).

He is entitled to his opinion, I have no problem with that, but he was misleading the OP in a couple of respects, those being the sonics of these speakers which can obviousy be debated, but, clearly he was misleading concerning pricing. I made a point of telling the OP that if you like either of these speakers, you pretty much inherently like the other.

As a sidenote, "The King" chose the affordable DSP3400 to go with his Studios....one would have thought he would have chosen the matching Studio Sub...Oh yeah, I forgot,they cost around 3-4 times what the DSP subs cost.

That's my 2 cents.

(2 cents Cad=approx 1.91 cents US)


Disclaimer.....some names have been changed to protect the guilty.

Hi Adrian: Welcome to banned list!!! well if a troll shows up here we might have an idea where it came from!!!

Anyone else want a membership?

Here’s what I deduce from the Digital Home thread:
This guy, “Hugh”, was giving his opinion. Not even a strong opinion.
Again, typically, Axiom forum members jumped this guy for having a difference of opinion not complimentary to Axiom.
Think of the way Axiom forum members discuss companies like Bose, Klipsch, Monster, Energy etc.
This thread “More Misformation about Axiom's!!!” is the equivalent of “the pot calling the kettle black”.

Just silly!!

Did you mean "misinformation" rather than "misformatiom"

Your getting sleepy. S-l-e-e-p-y. V-e-r-y S-l-e-e-p-y. Repeat after me. "There are no better speakers than Axion." Now when I snap my fingers, you will click on the PRODUCTS link then on the EPIC 80-600 link, and you will place an order.

I'm not ripping the guy for having an contrary opinion about Axiom. I'm ripping the guy for banning two posters in the forum and closing down the thread because he did not like what they said. Fair enough if you have listened to Axioms and don't like them, but let others have their say as well. Axiom would let this guy say what he wants to on their forum without banning him or closing a thread.

I did participate in that thread. I guess if 'hugh' said something along the lines like" I have listened to them both and prefered the Paradigms" then that may have come across OK, but instead issued a " don't waste your money on Axioms" it does come across a little harsher and does insult those of us who have spent money on them.I have owned both and currently have Axioms as my mains but could easily own either brand.To start a thread over here about what's goin on over there though, may be a bit of an over reaction.Just enjoy the music boys, whatever you own!

This stuff from Hugh is like what you read a lot in forums. A guy has a certain brand of speakers (or TV, DVD player, receiver, etc.) and every other brand is total crap in comparison. I love my Axiom's and they are a huge step up from the Bose cube speakers. But, I don't really have any other frame of reference to judge any other speakers by. Maybe the Paradigms are much better than Axioms, but I can't say since I haven't A/Bed them in my room. I did just recently got an Aperion set of speakers, but since they are not in the same room as my Axiom's I can't really say which speaker I like better. They just sound different. I really like how my Axioms sound in the home theater and really like how the Aperions sound in the other room with background music.

- Nick

Has anyone seen the latest video from Ian?
http://www.axiomaudio.com/ian-video-message.html

Two points:
1st Yes it was childish to ban members for what are really benign comments.
2nd Axiom forum members have no say in who says what to whom. Unless it’s completely and overtly rude, you’re safe. Axiom staff has sole discretion in this area.

Nice!

Oh, and Hugh is acting like a crybaby. I've been a part of other (non-speaker related) forums where the owner/moderator of the forum picked Blu-Ray as the winnder over HD-DVD (I know, he was right), but it was WELL before the battle got going, and he was misquoting specs and all out lying. Well, most of the people there had no clue about anything home theater related, and when I spoke up with pure facts, no opinion, my posts got deleted. I reposted thinking I must not have hit the "Post" button or something, and I got banned.

BANNED for stating facts, with links to the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sites with the specs and details, and all on a site that had NOTHING to do with home theater. Well, I got my access back, but to this date, I have a hard time going back there. The guy is no longer the "king", but he convinced the current management that I was a troublemaker, and when they took over there was no record of my messages... Just his word against mine. It is amazing when a troll can run a forum.

Hugh has had a hate on Axiom since the beginning due to the referral marketing they did. Axiom straight up responded to him about it though when asked.

Hugh and Axiom

I just love how in this most recent event he blames Axiom again and not the actual individuals posting....

Here's a really recent one that is positive though?
Set ups between $2500-$3500

About as good as it will get from Hugh. Its funny how he tries to inflate the costs of the system by stating the QS8s REQUIRE matching stands, matching stands would be necessary for any surround speaker not mounted to a wall, at least Axiom supplies a wall mount for free with the QS series.

I am fully aware of Axiom's role in this forum as I have been a member for six years.

I’m not sure what that second point meant. If the point is that axiom doesn’t get into pissing contests with posters and then in order to get the last word in close the tread, why then I would agree.



Didn’t some local doc just watch a movie about this type of personality Ideas of reference

One of the worst forums with @sshole moderators is the xboxscene forums. Those moderators have a bad attitude and ban people all the time. I quit posting there a long time ago. I guess some people get off on having control over a forum or something.

Yes, that is what I meant basically. I really don't like how he assumes that anyone posting from the Axiom site is automatically affiliated. Why bash the company (Axiom) because some clients were being vocal?

This kind of stuff is so stupid and just a waste of time. People have been arguing brand names for decades (think Chevy vs Ford etc.). I personally don't understand why some people will so rabidly defend a brand. It's not like these companies are paying these people to represent their product, and even if someone were endorsed, I don't imagine any company with any brains would want their representatives slagging on the competition. Let the product sell itself. People have different opinions, life goes on. I am generally loyal to a brand I am happy with without question, but that does not mean it's the only choice and everything else is terrible.

Some people are simply rabidly vocal loyalists who believe their preferences can and should be generalized to apply to others. I don't like to talk to these people very much.

Thanks for the info on the past bad blood, it paints a more complete picture.



Sorry man I didn’t write that very well. I was referring to the second point that Ukiah made:

Shudder. Even worse is the person who preaches a single minded, political view.

EDIT: My post was in response to Peter's comment about not speaking much to "rabidly vocal loyalists".

Over the years, I have found in any hobby such as ours, where there is a large group of people that take more than a casual interest, you will always find a small select few in that group who are obsessed with the tiny unimportant details of the equipment itself rather than actually enjoying what it does! I am sure at one time or another, we have all run in to them. You will tend to find them more in so-called "high-end" high priced retail outlets. A couple of years ago I met a fellow who had that kind of attitude and had just opened a new store. He is now OUT of business. A few are convinced the only way to listen to music is through very expensive tube amplifiers and vinyl and say everything else is garbage. Being an old musician way back, I ran into guitar players who were totally convinced unless you were playing a 1957 "vintage" Fender Stratocaster everything else was crap!

There is, in essence, kind of a "misplaced snobbery" in which you to have to roll you eyes and ignore.

Well I suppose when you're king you can throw anyone you want in the dungeon and forget about them. Luckily for us this is only the internet and not anything terribly important, so life goes on. Sounds to me like this guy Huge didn't like what he viewed as sneaky advertising from Axiom, and it's left a bad taste in his mouth for Axiom as a whole. That sort of thing can happen, I understand it. It's not usually anyone's fault in particular, so I don't hold it against Huge or Axiom, it's just one of those things. You can take a highly respected company like Honda, that has pumped out loads and loads of dependable, affordable, reliable and environmentaly responsible cars over the years and still find people who've had a bad experience with the company and dislikes them. The sad part is it's not the products fault, it's the human factor that causes these feelings. People, in general, irk other people.

I live in a very prejudice area. I was lucky enough to have been born and raised in a non-prejudice family and area during my formative years. I was born in Vancouver and also lived in a small town south of Calgary Alberta. It wasn't until I moved to Indiana at age 10 that I heard the word 'nigger' for the very first time. I didn't have any clue what it meant. Of course since then I've come to accept that (white) people in this area are raised to belive that they are the superior race. Which is unfortunate, because it really does nothing but create problems. I've heard it said many times that if we could only get the blacks out of this country, then everything would be fine. It's hilarious to me that a person could truely believe something like that. In my experiences I've come to understand that human nature is two sided. When people meet other people they do two things, first of all they look for things they have in common with the other person.

Do they like sports? Do they drink? Do they ride motorcycles?

And people like to surroung themselves with other people with the same interests. But the second thing that happens is after finding common ground, most people then find where their differences lie, and groups then start to subdivide. So, "do you like sports" begins the relationship as a bonding criteria, but it quickly leads to, "oh you like the Patriots? They suck, you're an asshole"! "Do you drink" winds up, "oh you're a Bud Light drinker, what a pussy". And, "do you ride motorcycles" ends up, "oh your on a rice burner, grow up"! So the things that initially bring us together, ultimately tear us apart.

So those eternally looking forward to the day that the white's rise up and throw the blacks off of the continent will be sad to find out that everything isn't fixed. Because there will still be those who are Patriot fans, drink Bud Light and own a Kawasaki.

Ummm... ok seems I may have strayed off topic just a bit. But I was trying to point out that there will always be differences between people, even in small subgroups like audio lovers. You would think the love of audio would bind us, but we humans can find ways to hate eachother no matter how alike we may be. That's just the way it is.

Micah: I couldn't agree more what has REALLY changed in the last 40 years!!! As a Jewish person I've encountered antisemitism which has shocked me(Out to take over the world,dirty jew,etc)if humans (most not all however)do not figure out we are supposed to get along and help each other(just not at holiday time)then "our" collective future is very bleak as a species!!!

So why are we still here discussing this? Obviously this Hugh guy uses his web forums to cry "foul" in response to the discussions here. The old post, which he revived in response to this thread here, was about the "refer-a-friend" program, which I think is a great thing, but as we all know, most of those "referrals" were not from anyone posting any review or comment on a web site, but by them coming to one of our homes and doing an audition. The speakers made the sale, not some blind click to the Axiom web site through a link. I still say that the original poster probably should have found the right place to post the link and should have made people aware of what it meant to them. Sure, it would have diminished their creditability, possibly, but it would have been open an honest.

I do find it utterly silly that the posters over there seemed to hold Axiom directly responsible for the actions of its product owners, as if we are all employees now or something. Heck, I've done a couple of in-home demo's for some people that I don't think bought anything. I didn't care, it was just fun to do.

So anyway, the more we discuss this over here, the more Hugh states that someone here bad mouthed and insulted him. I think that some of his comments (quite a few actually) are pretty crappy at best and I am ready to just let his own whining and crying speak for itself. He is biased against Axiom, that is clear, but he is far from the only one out there. Heck, there are people in the world that still say that Bose cube systems sound perfect. That is their uneducated experience, my knowledge proves otherwise, and I can live with that.

How wonderful for you!

I have to ask Micah, which small town south of Calgary, High River, Okotoks or farther South?

Wow did this thread ever take a turn!

I've been a member on digital home forum and thought they were a credible forum but after this unprovoked Axiom bashing I'm having second thoughts.

Hugh, thinks it's inethical for customers to act as a sales channel. What world does this guy live in? Have you seen the movie Transformers, do you realize how much product placement is in that movie? What does that mean, that all those companies that pay for the products are evil??

Ooops, I spaced that sorry. Actually it's a small town south of Edmonton, and NORTH of Calgary. A town so small it's really just a hiccup on highway 2 between Olds and Innisfail. A little town named 'Bowden'. When I was growing up there the population was only around 800. At that time I think Innisfail was around 15,000 and I thought it was a BIG city!

I remember there was a gas station on the highway that sold a shirt that read, "Where The Hell's Bowden"? That shirt about said it all. If you weren't a local, then you probably never heard of Bowden, and probably never will.

I think someone should sit him down and give him a double blind test and not tell him Axiom's or Paradigm's are used. Then we can all have a good laugh when he love's him some Axiom's!!!

Micah
Did you live in the Bowden Pen.?
The gas station is still there and the RCMP have their dog training facility there as well.
Everyones heard of Bowden!

Ah, the penitentiary. Yeah I suppose if you have to be known for something...

My wife is also from a town with a famous-ish prison. Whenever someone hears where she's from, it's either that or the Air Force base...

They just rebuilt the gas station at Bowden, it looks nice.

Valparaiso?

As a further note to this one Hugh also sent and e-mail message directly to Axiom. From what I could interpret from his curt message it was basically threatening us to either remove this thread from our message board (which he found insulting) or there would be consequences brought to my company. Below is the response I sent to Hugh which hopefully brings some much needed balance to this situation. It is disheartening that Hugh hates Axiom so much but hopefully we can end up, at a minimum, with some form of mutual respect being applied to our differences.


Hugh,

I think I should start by clarifying that none of the people who have posted on this thread on our message board are Axiom employees. I would also appreciate it if you could tell me which post you find insulting; I read through them and could not find one. It is not the policy of Axiom to sensor our message board as we view this both counterproductive and less fun. Hence we are not willing to willy-nilly take down threads on our message board; but if you can point to some particularly egregious personal or profane comment we will consider removing it.

I think it would also be constructive if you took a moment and stepped back to look at what has happened here. This entire incident was started by your comment on your message board “Don’t waste the money on Axioms”. You made this comment to a person who owns and loves his Axiom products; do you see the antagonistic and underlying insulting nature of such a comment? Frankly I was quite surprised at how civil everyone was in response to your comment made in direct response to an Axiom owner.

Beyond technically insulting everyone who has purchased and loves their Axiom products it is also a direct attack at me. As someone who has spent 30 years researching the science of sound, spent 10 years directly involved in probably the most in-depth research project ever done into loudspeaker performance, has spent millions of dollars building a state of the art acoustical research and development laboratory, and has a deep personal desire to make every Axiom product the best it can possibly be; “Don’t waste the money on Axioms” is an insult. Beyond myself there is a very long term and dedicated staff here at Axiom that share in this passion. You have insulted them also.

It would seem from your comment “as I find the notion of affiliate marketing distasteful unless it is clearly identified” that your real problem with my company may lie in this program as opposed to the actual products. Affiliate programs are a very common thing among on-line companies. One of the pioneers of this program was Amazon. Our affiliate program was created mainly so we could participate in certain shopping sites and so our network of custom installers could make a commission for using our products in their installations. The actual number of people who are simply owners of our product that are affiliate members is extremely small and they are not the ones posting about your comments. I might add that in the world of marketing and selling products an affiliate program for people who own and love their products is quite benign if you consider what goes on in the retail environment (just look at the practice of spiffs for products that need to get moved out of the warehouse or are added by the manufacturers and distributors). Beyond all this you commented that “I do not carry Paradigm advertising”. Does this mean if you did carry Paradigm advertising you would have to stop recommending them? Does this mean that the products advertised on your site are only products you would not recommend? Clearly I do not share your distaste for our affiliate program and that may solely be due to the fact that I know how benign our affiliate program is; whereas you have to deduce its scope, and that may conjure up thoughts of huge pyramid schemes or the like.

In closing I would just like to say that I am truly saddened that two people in the same industry, both with a passion for that industry, cannot be at least a bit more constructive towards positive end goals. Certainly if you ever feel even a slight change of heart to learn more about Axiom the company, its products, its roots, its philosophy, and its people I would be delighted to put the current animosity into the past.

Sincerely,

Ian Colquhoun
President

There you have it, Hugh. Simply Axiom owners stating their opinion. No affiliates, no thread closing...etc. Well said, Ian.

My personal belief is that we're not supposed to do anything. We make choices. Obviously the best hope for our entire species (which is comprised of individuals), is to choose to get along / work together / etc because it's the right thing to do, not because we're supposed to do it.

You're a lion. You eat people. What do you know?

Very good, Ian. Thank you very much.

Nice to see you on the forum Ian. I just wish it was to talk about all things audio instead of this sillyness.

I belong to many forums, and have owned many brands of speakers through the years. This type of stuff just seems so silly. Reminds me of my old AVSforum days, which is why I rarely login anymore. We all have a common interest here, Audio. When you attend the many Audio/Video conventions around the country, most of the owners respect each other, well maybe all except BOSE.

I don't see why Hugo has so much hate towards Axiom, and I'm still waiting for his factual basis for his statements. It is ok to cast opinions about a particular company, but if your just blowing hot air with no scientific basis, it means nothing. As soon as someone calls him in a tactful way, he bans them. They should change the name of that forum to Hugo's Utopia or whatever.

Anyway, I've read the entire thread mentioned, and I don't see how any of the Axiom folks are attacking Hugo, they are just asking sensible questions asking for the basis of his opinion. In fact, it seems just the opposite like the pot calling the kettle black. He is the one making statements about Axiom, not the other way around, and then he bans anyone that DARE question him, what a joke.

Paradigm and Axiom are both great speaker companies from the great white north. As long as I've been a member on the Axiom forum, we have always given Paradigm great respect. In some of the AB listening tests I've done, the Paradigm Studio line has been very similar to Axiom's lineup.

Hugh, come on man, get over yourself and join the rest of us that love this hobby. If you can't get over people that might have a different opinion than you, maybe you should look for some other way to relieve your obvious stress.

*update - I see now that he is again bashing Axiom on the above noted thread, and planning on closing it permately. How do people like that become moderators of a board, oh wait, he is the board.

It's all about responses... I like mine flat, both on-axis and off-axis!

Another Flockhart fan...

This guy is so power hungry in my opinion he is actually trying to close/censor whats said on this forum through bully tactics. I wonder what would happen if someone dares steps on his toes or tells him what he should or should not post on his forum...oh wait...how silly.

Well said Ian. I doubt he will take you up on your offer but I hope I am proven wrong. Its nice to see what a class act Axiom is and taking the high road and trying to make ammends with this narcissist and bully (my opinion not Axioms) . This is all over something so ridiculous watching it from the sideline.

As an Axiom customer I extend to you Hugh an olive branch . Please accept. No hard feelings. This situation is so highschool.

Hi: Thanks Ian very well said!! Some people are so insecure they can't handle a little criticism! The issue is being blown way out of proportion by Hugh it is very sad oh well nothing we can do here. Interesting before banning me he never answered my question about taking a tour of the plant(Axiom's) to see how the speakers were build! In a way I regret posting what happened here as it caused a bunch of aggravation to some people over a silly matter.

WOW Ian. Thanks, so much, for clarifying the entire situation. I simply cannot believe that someone would demand that a thread at another forum be closed and threaten consequences if it isn't. Shameful behavior.

Please say hi to Amie for me and tell her I miss her sense of humor. Happy holidays to you both.

Well put Ian. I think this is just fanboyism and a severe case of cognitive dissonance on part of Hugh.

You can't change prejudice you can only try.

Not unusual for a king to want to be emperor.

@ Hugh, if you are still reading this I have an idea for you. Don’t!

Also, in the future consider that what you say publicly directly reflects on the organization you represent. Had a simple member made your comments I doubt anyone would have noticed or cared. Keep in mind that one can voice displeasure with others and/or their products w/o being unprofessional, that way if they overreact they’re the ones that look bad and get talked about.

Now this is INSULT!!



and I am from outside of North America.

Is this spam?

Ian, Hear HEAR!

To me this entire incident is a barometer of current times. I struggle with my daughters over internet content. Getting them to understand that it is what it is. Mucho opinion and precious little fact. So....someone like Huge can do as he pleases - and that is his right. Same Same for some of the silly spats that go on at AVS. It is amazing to me how folks can goad each other into a tizzy over forum posts and e-mail? My solution is ignore and move on. Of course, if real consequences are threatened, that is a different story....re the Blue Jeans vs. Monster face off. Haven't heard anything further beyond what was posted a few weeks back.....

Hi Hugo

I don't really have a problem with Hughs opinion on the affiliate program. The internet is a wonderful thing. He is entitled to his opinion just as much as we are. It allows consumers/companies to be heard both negative and positive. The irony with Hugh and the fact that he is a forum adminstrator, he does not quote anything in context (101 of forum etiquette). I find this important in cases like this when making accusations or stating something as fact (not necessarily with opinions) because it gives the individuals or in this case the consumers reading a better overall understanding of what was said and provides proper context which gives the consumer the tools to make better decisions. If one deletes comments or tries to control the flow of information I find this counter-productive in my opinion and a disservice to consumers, especially when comments are made after in reference to them.

I like how he has now hurt himself and his advertisers by restricting who is able to get on his forum, smooth move...

I hear you Dr.House. It is precisely because of occurrences like the "Huge Incident" that I stress to my daughters to be careful what you believe off the internet. I have not read the entire thread - but I would assume that the posts and opposite opinions can be deleted without a trace? To quote from the book of John L. "Most peculiar, Momma"

I think this has run its course, guys. It's starting to sound like Tiger Woods gossip in here.

Awe come on I wanted to hear more about Bowden.

Yeah man.

It is situated next to highway 2 about 10 min. south of Innisfail, has a reasonably nice golf course and hasn't changed much in the 30years I have been driving by. There is a respectable fishing/camping area about 30 minutes west with the Dickson Dam leisure grounds or even closer at Red Lodge

Pics @ 11

One of my other "Larryisms" fits well in this....keep in mind:

"You can never get along with someone, who does not wish to be gotten along with"

Hey you promised pictures @ 11 and it’s past that now.

Is this the Bowden we’re talking about?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowden,_Alberta

Which brings up a question I’ve wondered about since I graduated from Marine Corps boot camp. Our Company “Honour Man” at graduation was Canadian and when they announced where he was from they said Saskatoon Saskatchewan. Since many if not most countries I’ve been to use city and country I wondered if using city and province like the U.S uses city and state is the common way to refer to a Canadian city.

That would be the Bowden we are talking about.

Yes, for clarity to those not aware of Canadian geography I would say Saskatoon Saskatchewan or Calgary Alberta especially on an international stage, but for the most part cities, towns etc. are just refered to as Saskatoon or Calgary or Banff or the center of the universe Toronto

I think Florida State asked him to step down?

That was inexcuseable, no way to treat one of the best coaches they have ever had.

Wow, I'm actually stunned that Bowden made the Wikipedia... they really do have a little something about EVERYTHING don't they!

The golf coarse is nice, my grandmother lived in a house directly across from it. So I have many memories of it from my childhood. One of my favorites being jumping the fence in the winter on a Skidoo (the snow drifts went up over the top of thhe fence), with the Skidoo going one way, and me the other, and laughing so hard I had to do it again, and again, and again!

But being a youngster I didn't visit the golf course much beyond that experience. The only other great thing to do around Bowden was go visit the dump. Ah how could childhood memories get any better than sorting through other peoples trash for fun?

One of the stories I've always told people down here in the US is when I'm asked about if the myth of Canadian's being obsessed with hockey is true. I say look, I was raised from age 5 to age 10 in a dusty little town in Alberta with around 800 (I see in that Wikipedia post that it's grown 50%) inhabitants. We had a general store, a gas station a school that went from kindergarden to grade 13 (when there still was a grade 13) in one building, and not much else. But by golly they had themselves an indoor, climate controlled hockey arena in that tiny little town, and all the towns people, the neighboring farmers and anyone else with transportation was packed into that place every friday night for hockey night!

Oh yeah, Canadian's love them some hockey!!!

Kind of like Kiwis and Rugby Football.

The Leafs have been trying to change this for several decades now.

It always sounds weird to me when someone says, "Vancouver, Canada."

I guess it depends on where you are in relation to the country and how well you know it. We don't say "Sydney, New South Wales", we say "Sydney, Australia".

I would agree, it depends on where you are located. In North America, I would say Toronto, Ontario or Toledo, Ohio or Los Angeles, California but if I were in Europe, say, I would generally substitute the country in place of the Province or State.

It also depends on which town/city you're talking about. If I said I live in Richmond/USA, most people would assume the Richmond that resides in Virginia. There is probably a Richmond in most of the 50 states, so it's important to point out that I live in the one in Indiana.

If you're from Manhattan, not need to expand any further on it's whereabouts.

Well, there is a Manhattan, Kansas.

I am very accustomed to saying "Vancouver, BC" since there is a relatively large Vancouver, WA (right across the river from Portland, OR). Seattle is pretty much equidistant from the two Vancouvers.

Bahahahaha.... I did not know this

And there are Madhatters in most cities.

And there's a Manhattan Beach in Southern California. Which is what I might think of.